My Bally 809 again...COIN ACCEPTED light issues.

[shortrackskater]

I'm glad NLG is back!
I'm experiencing a new problem. All I did was take out the reel assembly, like I've done a hundred times before. I was having payout problems - wouldn't pay on three oranges. I'll get back to that but now the COIN ACCEPTED light won't go on after entering a coin. It's not the bulb. I checked the switch and relay according the troubleshooting manual. It doesn't really say what to look for. They were working before.
When you insert coins, the COIN ACCEPTED  won't light up but the INSERT COIN will. After 5 coins entered the INSERT COIN goes off.
But, AFTER playing 5 coins, the INSERT COIN light remains OFF until the first coin is entered. I'm thinking this is a hint of the problem but I just don't know what to look at. I'm hoping this might be a common problem and someone can jump in, again. I'm going to mow the lawn and hope a friendly NLG member responds when I get back! 

[shortrackskater]

OKAY I'm still hoping someone will reply. I've mowed the front and back lawn now. Maybe I'll do some windows and come back later...

[Jim]

the first set of contacts on the coin relay switch control the both lights. its a S.P.D.T. switch.  you should be able to compare wire colors on the lamps to figure out the correct contacts.
you can set and reset that switch relay using your finger. when the coil is released, the insert coin lamp (contacts should be making), when the coil is latched, the coin accepted lamp contacts should be making.
if all that checks out, then the only thing left is the plugs, on the older machines those contacts get dirty, and some times get bent, and sometimes the Bakelite on the beau connector is cracked and allows the mating pin to be recessed.
If it worked before and all you did was to remove the reel mech. then it could be the plugs?? 

Jim

[shortrackskater]

Just to make sure, since I've goofed up before (my IGT with the blow MPU caused by me plugging in the BV power supply incorrectly!)  - is the coin relay on the left side of the hopper assembly, toward the back?

[Jim]

the coin relay is on the left side of the reel mech in the back.

Jim

[shortrackskater]

I've traced the wire directly from the light back to the switch in the reel mechanism to make sure there were no breaks. And I can see the relay flipping properly when the coin is inserted. At the contact point the yellow/black stripe wire connects to the grey/red stripe wire which I traced back to the beau connector. I would assume this would be a source of voltage to light the COIN ACCEPTED light, but from the schematic (which I can barely read) it looks like they share the same voltage source.
This seems like it should be simple but I'm not getting it. I did check both beau connectors. One contact was out significantly but I don't know what it did since nothing has changed.  
Should I trace the grey/red strip wire? I would assume it goes to the transformer but, again I thought both lights shared the same source.

Update: When the COIN ACCEPTED relay is activated, it makes contact from a yellow/black stripe to the grey/red stripe wire. I traced that back to the beau connector on the left side of the reel mech (facing the machine). On the back of that connector are two grey/red stripe wires...one from the switch, and the other disappears into the harness but looks like it goes left somewhere.
Is this making sense? I'm assuming it must close the circuit but it's getting difficult to follow this wire.
Any clues?

[Jim]

there are three voltages in this machine, 115vac, 50 volts ac, and 6volts ac.  all lighting circuits use the 6 vac. the wires are color coded as to the voltage they carry. in a bally em the common wire between the two ac voltages is yellow (or the 30 wire)  30 means 3=yellow 0= no tracer. the 6 vac hot is blue (or the 20 wire) 20 means 2=blue 0= no tracer. 

in your case: the two bulbs have one side of the bulb going to the blue wire, the other side goes through a series of switches back to the common side,( when all the switches and conditions are good, the bulb will light.
again in your case:assuming the machine at idle, cycle complete. the common wire starts out at the payout relay switch on the hopper, this set of contacts should have three wires on it  a yellow on the common, gray/red on the nc, (normally closed) and a green/white on the no (normally open), the gray/red goes from this point to the common contact of the coin relay switch,through the nc contact (yellow/brown wire) to the "C-2" switch contact through the closed c-2 switch (red/black wire) to the insert coin bulb.
now when the machine is coined "accepted a coin" the coin relay is latched and the common at the common contact of the coin relay switch now goes to the no contact (yellow/black wire) and on to the coin accepted lamp.

Jim
 

[shortrackskater]

I posted a reply to this earlier today but apparently it didn't go! Hope I didn't post it in the wrong forum.
I'll try again...I tried to check as much as possible from your last post - still came up with COIN ACCEPTED light not working but relays apparently working. I checked a lot of other things and wiped a few more contacts with some card stock paper...gently and no abrasives.
Machine still wasn't working and I pulled in hopper out to remove some coins and sort of shoved it in hard, maybe out of frustration.
Well now it's working...everything is working fine so I'm thinking it IS the beau plugs in the back of the hopper. The female side looks clean to me but the male side on the hopper was discolored.
Now for the thousand dollar question: What are those contacts made of?
A local, reputable slot mechanic said that they are silver coated (copper inside I think he said) and that I should NOT have used an abrasive brush on them, which I already did! They still aren't thoroughly shiny and have some streaks of corrosion in them.
Have I created a time bomb? Are those contacts going to corrode more now? Or should I continue cleaning them with something ? to make them more shiny?
I've been using the machine repeatedly and it's working fine, although I'm not sure if it pays out completely correct since it tends to only hit watermelons and cherries. 

[Amachanic]

I posted a reply to this earlier today but apparently it didn't go! Hope I didn't post it in the wrong forum.
I'll try again...I tried to check as much as possible from your last post - still came up with COIN ACCEPTED light not working but relays apparently working. I checked a lot of other things and wiped a few more contacts with some card stock paper...gently and no abrasives.
Machine still wasn't working and I pulled in hopper out to remove some coins and sort of shoved it in hard, maybe out of frustration.
Well now it's working...everything is working fine so I'm thinking it IS the beau plugs in the back of the hopper. The female side looks clean to me but the male side on the hopper was discolored.
Now for the thousand dollar question: What are those contacts made of?
A local, reputable slot mechanic said that they are silver coated (copper inside I think he said) and that I should NOT have used an abrasive brush on them, which I already did! They still aren't thoroughly shiny and have some streaks of corrosion in them.
Have I created a time bomb? Are those contacts going to corrode more now? Or should I continue cleaning them with something ? to make them more shiny?
I've been using the machine repeatedly and it's working fine, although I'm not sure if it pays out completely correct since it tends to only hit watermelons and cherries. 

This is what i have done with the Beau plugs before and its worked for me.. I have cleaned the pins on the male plugs on the hoppers and reels using a small wire wheel on my Dremel or a piece of 500/600 wet/dry sand paper to polish them. I always clean them wet using rubbing alcohol or WD40. If I use WD40 I clean up everything with the rubbing alcohol since it drys fast and leaves nothing behind... The other thing I do is spray a light mist of WD40 on the female side of the plug, they work the two plugs in and  out a few time. This will make it easier to unplug the hopper and reels in the future and the problems usually stays gone too... This has worked for me on my machines, but it may not be the correct way to do the job for everyone. I just wanted to share my experiences

[shortrackskater]

Thank you!
I recently had a slot mechanic recommend a product called "CorrosionX." He swears by it and said he cleans the beau plugs with a wire brush, then sprays them with it and it solves the problem of continued corrosion. I don't know if anyone here has heard of it or uses it.
I wish there was just a specific forum here for the continued problem of contact cleaning. It seems to be quite a variable subject. The man I spoke to earlier today on the phone spends full time repairing EM's for decades and was quite set on NOT ever using a wire brush on these contacts. But...too late for me and I'll probably continue cleaning that plug anyway since I already started.

[Ron (r273)]

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=corrosionx&tag=mh0b-20&index=aps&hvadid=21549207&ref=pd_sl_6827p7wvxz_p

Ron (r273)

[Amachanic]

Thanks Ron for the link.. K+1 for you. By the description of the spray, it sounds liked a HD version of WD40, spray lube with corrosion resistance. I've tried many different types of spray lubes by always seem to go back to the original. The only thing I've noticed about WD40 I'm not crazy about is that it will dry out, doesn't last very long, but for freeing up sticky or frozen parts I work fine,  but  I always re-oil with a light weight machine oil to finish the job...

Gary

[shortrackskater]

Well I mentioned it first...I don't get any credit?
And thanks for the link amachanic!

[Amachanic]

Well I mentioned it first...I don't get any credit?
And thanks for the link amachanic!

K+ to you too for the info shortstaker... Thank r273 Ron for the link.

[shortrackskater]

Whoops! Sorry - that's what I get for trying to be funny...thank you r273! And thanks amachanic for the help. While we're all here...and I know this has gone around before...but what do I clean the button contacts where the wipers are? I used a file...just kidding...should I use some kind of polish? And, would it be good to spray those with corrosionx?

[Amachanic]

I clean mine with rubbing alcohol and a thin strip of folded over paper. I wet the paper and put it between the contact working it back and forth. I like the alcohol because it drys quick and clean. I then check with my ohm meter to make sure they are working. I would not spray the corrosionx on them.

[shortrackskater]

Do you mean for the "point" style contacts (the ones that touch together) or the "button" contacts?

[Amachanic]

Do you mean for the "point" style contacts (the ones that touch together) or the "button" contacts?

What ever I can get at on my EM machine I will clean this way.. Then I check there operation with my ohm meter...

[shortrackskater]

Okay...so I could just put some rubbing alcohol on the backside of a business card and just rub away? I guess I need to do this on ALL those areas. Thanks again.

[shortrackskater]

I got back to working on my 809 tonight. And I got back the same problem happening again!
The COIN ACCEPTED light is, once again, not working. And after the fifth coin is entered and played, the INSERT COIN won't go on until the second coin inserted.
I can't seem to find anything. It will do this for 100 plays, then start to work again, then go out again.
Last time, it all started working fine when I plugged the hopper firmly back in. I tried this again and nothing.
Any ideas?

[Jim]

the reason it probably started to work when you SLAMMED the hopper back into place was the set of switches that start the whole chain of events probably made contact. 

you can clean the contacts all day long, use whatever you think will work, but the bottom line is this!!!  if you think it is clean, if you think it is making a contact, then that's all you are doing is thinking. the ONLY SURE WAY TO KNOW  IS TO USE A METER and check the contacts in question. you can exercise the contacts over and over  by using your finger to simulate the relay working and watching or listening to the tone from the meter. if you go through each set of contacts that I listed in reply #6 you should find your problem.
without a meter or a lamp probe your just spinning your wheels as too weather or not a set of contacts is actually making contact!

Jim

[shortrackskater]

Well that's what I was doing...checking those contacts...with my meter. But then it started working and seemed fine until I took a couple weeks off from working on it, and then went back to it to address the coin pay out issue.