Bally 742-317 Looking for payscale info

[Techowl]

Hi everyone!

I am looking for pay scale info for this old Bally machine. I am going to make up a top glass for the insert with all of the payout info on it.

Is there any way to get all of the payout info without having to cycle through the entire sequence of the reels?

This machine has some special images on the reels such as a cowboy, Indian head, covered wagon and a single Circus Circus image.

I have modified this machine to use an electronic coin acceptor, but it is otherwise original. The reel and payout mechanism both have the number 317 written on them.

I have included some pics of the unit.

Thanks,

-Techowl-

[StatFreak]

Techowl

I've never seen those reel strips before, gut the Money Honey had bars, watermelons, stars (which were overlays on my particular machine) and Money Honeys.

The Circus Circus are obviously the bars, which should pay 150 coins.
My guess is that something (maybe the circled pictures such as the cowboy & wagon) would be the watermelons (also paid 150) or the stars (paid 100)
If the Indian head is the Money Honey, then it will pay 18 coins for three in any position, not just on the line.

I'd simply try the unknown symbols looking for the above mentioned payouts (a second 150 in addition to the bars, a 100 and an 18 that pays in any position). If they match then you're set. If not, then perhaps another member might have more info for you.

You should be able to tell which symbols go together by looking at the depth of the cuts in the "saw blades" index discs that determine the payouts. In most cases the same symbols will have the same depth (the symbols next to the Money Honey had to be different to accommodate the "any position" pays) and the deeper the cuts, the larger the payouts.

The Money Honey also had mystery payouts, all of which were orange variations (10 coins) and which were not officially listed on the pay glass. My machine pays 10 coins if the first reel is an orange, the second reel is either an orange or a watermelon (would be one of your special symbols), and the third reel is an orange, a plumb, a watermelon, or a bar (your Circus Circus).

Hope that helps some.

StatFreak
  Global Moderator

[prarire]

317 means Circus Circus  " Westward Ho made in Nickel & Quarter for Circus Circus.
Sounds like a limited model.
           frank
Make a topper with the special symbols information & just replace reel glass as it reads.

[StatFreak]

317 means Circus Circus  " Westward Ho made in Nickel & Quarter for Circus Circus.
Sounds like a limited model.
           frank
Make a topper with the special symbols information & just replace reel glass as it reads.

He doesn't know what the special symbols pay and in which combinations. The information I gave him was an educated guess based on the payouts of a generic Money Honey but if you have information about this specific machine, I'm sure he'd be glad to have it.


Stat

[Amachanic]

With this being an EM Machine he should be able to first put about 200 coins in the hopper, then slide the reels out and set all 3 reels to each symbol on the pay line. Then slide the reels back in and see how many coins would be paid for each of the jackpots in question... This is what I do when I need to adjust the hoppers payouts on an EM... I know my Money Honeys pays 50 for the watermelons, 100 for the stars, 150 for the Bars, and Money Honey pays 18 in any position if all 3 where showing in the window, or 200 if the all line up on the pay line..

[prarire]

Stat:
        Your information is SOUND.  I mentioned all I know about the machine.
If you want to sell it owner, let me know?.
         

[Techowl]

Thanks for the info guys.

I guess I'll have to see if some of the images payout as predicted above.

On this machine, if I want to test a payout, I just pull the handle while holding the timer fan, then set the reels and release the timer fan. The machine will lock in and do the payout.

I do know some of the smaller payouts as they listed on the reel glass.

Would the bigger payouts all be the same item on the reel? ie 3 plums or 3 cowboys etc?

I triggered a large payout by using 3 wagons I believe, some where around 180 or 200 coins. I didn't have the counters connected at the time, but I remember having to dump more coins into the hopper to keep the machine from timing out during the payout.

There is only 1 Circus Circus image and that is on reel 3. It shows a small payout with 2 cherries.

My concern was that there might be payouts on combinations of reels, and with 20 per reel, it would be very time consuming to cycle through all of the 8000 combinations.

Thanks,

- Techowl -

[CVslots]

Is this the one your looking for? I think I have both 5 & 25 cent versons. If it is the right one let me know if you need more pctures.

Darrell
CVslot

[StatFreak]

Is this the one your looking for? I think I have both 5 & 25 cent versons. If it is the right one let me know if you need more pctures.

Darrell
CVslot

Cool! 

If there is only one Circus Circus symbol on the third reel then it's substituting for the bar in the mixed fruit/bell bar payouts (according to what I seem to see on the pay glass) and there is no three bar payout.

[CVslots]

So, is it the same payout as the money honey?

[StatFreak]

So, is it the same payout as the money honey?

Not at all.

[Amachanic]

Wow... Cool find. Never know what you can find here.      K+  to CVslots 

[Techowl]

Is this the one your looking for? I think I have both 5 & 25 cent versons. If it is the right one let me know if you need more pctures.

Darrell
CVslot

That looks like the symbols I have. Is that all the info that the top glass has on it?

I was going to try and list all of the available payouts, but maybe there just are not that many to list.

This machine has 25 cents on the glass, but is configured to use dimes in the payout wheel. I suspect the payouts are just multiples as indicated on that glass you have there. IE: 3 cowboys is a 200x payout and 3 Indian heads is a 100x payout.

Thanks for the info.

- TechOwl -

[Techowl]

I thought everyone would like to see the topper I came up with. I based it on the pic that was posted by CVSlot.
The reel images are the actual ones from the reels. I scanned them using my flatbed scanner.
I actually scanned in ALL of the images, but only 3 were used in the topper.

The image isn't great, but it's the best I can do with the image size limitations.
 
- TechOwl -

[StatFreak]

I thought everyone would like to see the topper I came up with. I based it on the pic that was posted by CVSlot.
The reel images are the actual ones from the reels. I scanned them using my flatbed scanner.
I actually scanned in ALL of the images, but only 3 were used in the topper.

The image isn't great, but it's the best I can do with the image size limitations.
 
- TechOwl -

I'd say you did a fantastic job!         

You could use Photoshop to make the white areas transparent (if they aren't already), print it on a clear sheet with self stick on the back and mount it on a piece of Plexiglas. Or you could try taking it to a local printer to see if they could print it directly onto plexi. They might give you a copyright hassle, but then again they might not.

What fonts did you use for the dollar amounts and the 10¢?

[Techowl]

The white areas are transparent, at least in CorelDraw. My original plan was to print on acetate and use glass or plexiglass to hold it.

My new plan is to use an LCD backlight as a signboard instead of the flourecent lamp that is there now.
I have a few defective laptop screen elements around here, and one of them is exactly the same size as a sheet of legal size paper.
I figure the lighting will be far superior to trying to get that tube to light the topper from the bottom edge of the glass. I will post a
pic when I have the backlight thing up and running. I just have to figure out the inverter thing.

As for the fonts, it took a lot of research and trial and error to get ones similar to the originals.
The font used for the payout amounts is called Playbill BT and I used 2 sizes to get the combination you see there. Each payout
is actually 3 diffrent types of the font. The dollar sign is half the size of the main number, and the double zeroes are underlined characters
of the same size as the dollar sign. The 10¢ one is the same as WESTWARD HO and that one is called URWWoodTypD.

Both of those fonts came with CorelDraw! 9. Corel renamed it's fonts to something similar to the commercial ones out there, so if you are
looking to find those fonts online, the name will not be exactly as they list them. I altered the outline size to get the heavier lines around the the text.

- TechOwl -

[CVslots]

Wow, awsome job It looks good.

I have the Bally topper mount with the light in it I'll donate if you need one.

CVslot

[Techowl]

Oh, I have the mount with a working light. I just think a backlit display would be cool.

I have an inverter running now and the backlight works great.

Now I just have to find my roll of inkjet transparency film and I'll be set.

I am going to remove the tube and it's mount, disconnect the electrics for that fixture, then stash the inverter in the mount.
Then I plan to mount the backlit unit in the slot using the 2 mounting screws.

It should be quite cool when lit.

- TechOwl -

[CVslots]

I have a Bally side by side automatic Cherries Jubilee that is missing the topper. I have no Idea of the payouts on it. All of the symbols are cherries on all six reels.I've been putting it off because it's double wide but you've got me motavated to finish it.  

Thanks
CVslot


when your done

[Techowl]

OK, here are the pics I promised earlier. I took one of the backside so you can see how the inverter is mounted etc. I have the backlight brightness turned down to almost minimum.

I ended up using a high quality paper as I couldn't get the transparency to go through the printer cleanly enough to prevent smudging.

One question I have though.

How did the operators empty the coin hopper once it got full?

I don't think they would have to trick the machine into dumping the hopper with fake big wins until it was empty (the way I do it now). I know the payout hopper unit comes out, but man, it would weigh a ton if full of coins. I seriously doubt a full hopper is a concern for me, but I'm curious about things like that.

Anyways, here are the pics.....

- TechOwl -

[StatFreak]

OK, here are the pics I promised earlier. I took one of the backside so you can see how the inverter is mounted etc. I have the backlight brightness turned down to almost minimum.

I ended up using a high quality paper as I couldn't get the transparency to go through the printer cleanly enough to prevent smudging.

One question I have though.

How did the operators empty the coin hopper once it got full?

I don't think they would have to trick the machine into dumping the hopper with fake big wins until it was empty (the way I do it now). I know the payout hopper unit comes out, but man, it would weigh a ton if full of coins. I seriously doubt a full hopper is a concern for me, but I'm curious about things like that.

Anyways, here are the pics.....

- TechOwl -

There should be a spring loaded blade just below the coin mech that is pulled in by an electromagnet and deflects coins into the hopper. When the hopper is full the EM should de-energize and the coins should then divert to a chute that leads to a hole in the bottom of the machine (usually on the right side). A proper stand should have a matching hole with a large plastic bucket beneath to catch the overflow. Those buckets would collected by the casino every night and taken to the count room as their "profit." The machines were also bolted into the stands using four carriage bolts which not only kept them from tipping but also kept the two holes aligned. Even the most modern slots with coins still divert overflow to a hole that leads to the belly of the cabinet.

I've seen two types of hopper sensors but there may be more. My smaller hopper has a float ball (looks like a Wiffle ball) on a metal arm. When the coins push the float high enough it trips a microswitch that de-energizes the arm. Minor adjustments can be made but the hopper only holds about 400 quarters so adjustments weren't really necessary.

My high-capacity hopper has a microswitch on the bottom and is tripped by the weight of the coins in the hopper. There is a spring on the bottom and adjusting the tension changes the trip weight. What I did was to fill the hopper with the maximum number of coins desired, make sure that they were spread out in a "natural" way as they would be if they had all been fed into the machine, and then adjust the switch to just barely trip. Amazingly, I found that their simple mechanical approach was usually accurate to within 40 quarters in a hopper with 1200 coins and was often within 20 coins.


Regarding the transparency, you might take you design to Kinko's or Costco and have them print it up for you. It's shouldn't be too expensive. Of course, it looks good just as it is.


Stat

[Techowl]

The machine I have has a ball on an arm to detect when it's full, but all that does is stop the machine from taking any more coins. There is no exit chute from the coin hopper except the payout one. This machine has been modfied to use an electronic coin mechanism, and I pulled that whole deflector unit out. Any attempt to drop coins when the machine is off or full will result in the coin being returned in the payout area.

I suspect the machine has been modified more than once before I got it. I found a switch just dangling inside the cabinet, just below the pull arm mechanism. I put it back where the screw holes seemed to indicate it belonged, and it seems it was for some sort of detection of something below the pull arm and to the front of the machine on the right hand side, like maybe a box of some sort. The machine will work with the switch pushed or not pushed, so it's not clear what it is for. Maybe some sort of alarm to check the machine or something.

- TechOwl -