Older 25 year old S model games

[mvco]

Hello,

Being in  State dictates that home games must be 25 years old or older.  But it looks like early IGT S models should be legal here now.  After searching everywhere for information on what games I should be looking for, I am coming up cold.  Anyone with any ideas on what games, or better yet, a source for the older S models?  Any listings anywhere, by date, to IGT games?  I just cannot take a chance having an S Plus game and getting busted by our state, as people often do in this crap state.
thanks for any help,

[slotsteve]

date is on plate on right  side

[mvco]

Yes, I have seen those serial number/date plates.

Any collectors here have a nice S model for sale that is of age, or close to being old enough for sale?

[videoporker]

I have a Players Edge non plus Deuces Wild poker that I'm thinking of selling. It's just over 25 years old.
Any slot is hard to find in our area. I've never seen an S model here at all.

[cowboygames]

Does your state have the allowance for machines that don't take or payout any kind of coin or cash? There are fresplay kits for S2000 machines is why I ask. Or full token operation

[mvco]

I wish a free play game could be legal here, but sadly that is not the case.  Possesion, no matter if it takes tokens or not, is illegal.  Damn government!

[cowboygames]

I've noticed quite a few S series games for sale on craigslist in Phoenix and Las Vegas, you might look there or other areas of those states

[jay]

One of the best suggestions I have heard is to remove the locks.
You could argue that a token only machine, that one could trade in the tokens for cash, or vice versa.

However that arguement goes out the window if you can open the door and help yourself to a handful of coins, tokens or wooden nickles ?

[stayouttadabunker]

If they come after me for any stupid reason -
I will stupidly argue that it's my personal, fun, interactive piggy-bank...
It's NOT in the open and stays in my clothes closet...   
It takes American bills and quarters but there's no locks
and the money doesn't stay in there longer than my next bloody car payment.... 

[jay]

So if you were to build it yourself (lego sells kits) would it be illegal ??
A rose by any other name is still an animated lamp......

You can buy toy slots in Vegas and bring them home.... this is just a big toy.... No locks.... No problem.

[stayouttadabunker]

What bothers me is the wording of the law..."Possession of a Gambling Device"
How CAN it be a "gambling" device if there's no gambling involved, per say?

If I am strictly using it myself as a personal piggybank
and no other human being's on Earth are involved - am I gambling? 

I would definitely argue that word of the law and my intent.
The wording should actually be " Possession of a Slot Machine with the Intent of Gambling Purposes"    no?

[jay]

Do you own a set of dice ? perhaps you have that squirrled away in a box labled Monopoly ?
A deck of cards ? a poker chip set ? you might even be packing a quarter that we could flip.....
and don't get me started on "The game of life with that spinny thing".....

The acid test cannot be IF you can gamble on it.... but if that is the sole purpose of the device.
Opportunity, Capability and Intent are the three legal principles that they have to prove.

You and I could stand outside the front door of Walmart and bet on the jacket color of the next person to walk out of Walmart and swap $10.00 bills back and forth all afternoon...

I still maintain that an animated lamp in your living room may not be your wifes choice of decoration but no one can legislate taste.

[Foster]

My machine came under question, a neighbor, tried to accuse me of letting him gamble on my S+ (only machine I had at the time)
The machine has 2000-3000 credits on it at the time he came over (cash out was disconnected)
it still had close to the same number of credits when he left. he was there about 15 minutes and it letting him win.

He called local police stating he lost money in it.
It was 5-10 after he left they showed up.

He came over with them first stating he played quarters then changed his story to currency once I showed them the inside of machine. He had already seen the inside and I stated that I do not allow any money in my machine.
I opened the machine and showed them the machine only used tokens and also the cash can was empty, demonstrated that the BV was totally disabled.
They noticed the large number of credits on it as well and one officer tried to cash them out. I told him I had the switch disconnected because it takes a while to load credits up by winning (no SP1137 at the time)


The BV was disabled with a set chip shortly after I got the machine, I even disabled all bill denom with the proper dip switches, and also leaving the power/interface harness disconnected.
I plugged the harness in so the BV would power up. cycled the power on the machine while doing so. demonstrated the BV could not take any of the currency I had on me.

I even offered to allow them to search for the 100's of quarters he saw or the currency
It was a either a $50 or $100, I don't remember now
All I had at the time was about $20 in small bills.
Due to my being upfront and offering to allow them to search they didn't see the need to do so.

Note this was long ago and near the end of the month
the guy receives SSI/SSDI and he has or had a negative history with the police, from the way they talked with him, and his attitude towards them.

The officers decided that I had done nothing wrong and that he was just trying to get money out of me
one officer talked with me while the other escorted him out my apartment, I think I heard that officer tell him to go his apartment or else he would end up someplace else for the night.
He had stated if I gave him back what he supposedly lost - he would drop the complaint

[stayouttadabunker]

Like a deck of playing cards or a couple of dice, or the "spinny thing" ...   I would agree that a slot machine is capable
and has opportunity of "gambling".
Last time I checked, they still use playing cards on Blackjack tables at the casino and "gamble" with them.
In a casino environment, that is the sole intention for the use of playing cards.
 
There's no question in my mind that an S2000 could be anything other than a "slot machine" in every physical way.
However, using it for for personal enjoyment as a piggy bank storage device - are my sole intentions.
I would never use it as a "gambling" device...

I understand that the subject matter is quite different in some ways as we were talking about "Possession".
But the wording of the law uses the words "Gambling Device" - that's what bothers me.

Take for instance, a fluorescent lamp in an S+ or S2000 - these are also in people homes?
Some wives like the "animated lamp" but mine is an "animated piggy bank disguised as a slot machine"....?

One can look at this two ways - just like a deck of playing cards...?

[jbshocks]

The trouble is that you can spend a significant amount of money letting a lawyer explain to the judge why you are right.

[stayouttadabunker]

I've seen a court case in Montreal in 1990 in which some 50 people
were charged with "Possession of a Weapon with Dangerous Intent".
There was no doubt in anyone's minds that they were in "Possession of a Weapon",  but ...
the police had to prove "Dangerous Intent" and couldn't - all charges were dropped.

As far as a obtaining a lawyer, that's free of charge and court-appointed,... if you can't afford one.

[4 Deuces]

This concept is so completely foreign to me.   

I just can't imagine that someone would report someone else because they have a slot machine.  Wow!  Talk about having nothing better to do.   

Slot machines are everywhere out here in Las Vegas ... grocery stores, gas stations, bars, and of course casinos.  I have 4 in my home (and growing) and all of them take real money ... I wouldn't want it any other way.   

But you really got me thinking about allowing people to play them.  I do keep a sign that states that you must be 21 years or older to be near the machines and I keep the machines in a back room.  Still though ... wow!   

MVCO, Foster, Jay and Bunker ... my advice is to move to Las Vegas!       Weather's great and houses are cheap!

[stayouttadabunker]

Awesome! They have golf courses out there? 

[mvco]

Haha, we do indeed want to move to Las Vegas when we retire in about 15 years.  And guaranteed, I will have a huge slot collection come that time.
 you would not believe what a big deal it is to get caught with possesion of a gambling device.  Always makes the front page of the paper, as the story tells about the "raid" police and gambling commission agents served on someones home that had a slot or two.  As well, Pachinko, and Pachislo is illegal here, as well.  Crazy!
Being a 25 year state, I am real bored with my old Bally 873 and Continental games.

I guess I will keep my eyes open for an older S model, which would be motre fun that the old Bally EM's.  Hopefully an older S slot will pop up, I will keep an eye on Ebay.  Even an M slot might work, but I know those M slots can be a pain from time to time to keep running.

[Neonkiss]

Here's another twist to the 25 year law. I'm sure only a lawyer can advise and his opinion might differ from a court of law.
How much of a machine needs to be of the 25 year age?
If a machine was manufactured for, lets say 10 years and you change out a MPU board with a newer one. Is the machine still a 25 year old machine?
Or If one purchases a reproduction Mill mechanical machine, is it illegal since it was just made exactly as the antique machines?
What if that reproduction machine was sold as an antique and the buyer is unaware?

  for  
                       food for thought on stupid laws.

[jbshocks]

If the wood the cabinet is made from is from a 100 year old tree you should be good

[cowboygames]

The machine is only as old as it's youngest operating component

[jbshocks]

So does that mean that you need new old stock light bulbs and battery?

[reho33]

The New Mexico Gaming Control Board has stated that the "majority" of the parts must be 25 years old, WTF is "majority"? 85%, 90%, 95%? See? So "majority" could mean anything. I do understand the OP point but with most of us, we play with fire.

[stayouttadabunker]

Boy...imagine trying to determine the age of 51% of the parts in a machine...? 

"uh...the screws and nuts don't have dates written on them officer? "