Says Bally 809 but reels confuse me + a problem.

[Amachanic]

I didn't consider the zero switch bumper wearing down causing the wiper being off, I was thinking the other way with the stop bracket and tab causing too much of a backlash or slop in the first tooth of the 100 tooth gear first index. Nice catch OldReno..

[OldReno]

Thanks. I believe the 'proper' way to adjust a hopper is to first make sure your reset pawls de-latch to hit the 100 tooth gear cleanly- (using your zero stop adjustment), and then to adjust the board to the correct position (2 bolts holding it in place), and then finally bend (adjust) the zero switch. Doing it this way can prevent wear on your gear teeth, however it does take some time to do it with any exactness.
Using your zero stop to adjust the zero switch is, IMHO, the wrong way to do it.
For normal use, I wouldn't worry too much.
If anyone is interested, I can do a post on that....

[shortrackskater]

ok I am officially lost here...
Last thing I did was try and set the fingers to the 6 o'clock position...but which way do I set the spiral cam? Do I roll it counterclockways until it stops, then move the fingers back to the 6 postion? There's too much terminology I don't follow here.
I am trying to just read the book but I feel like I should just throw the towel back over this machine and this thread, read the book cover to cover, and come back later.
I'll try setting the finger contacts a few times in various positions of the cam and just see what happens.
Much as I read on the zero stop, I have no clue what it does.

[drfreeze1739]

Sent you a PM

[shortrackskater]

Here's where the fingers are ending up after a one coin three melon win - it's paying 50 cents now instead of 1 dollar.
* First picture shows the tabs
* Second picture shows the only thing that's making me happy now! 

[Amachanic]

I know how frustrating these can be. My very first EM took me years to figure out. I walked away from it many times, but that was before I found this sight. Now I have a question.. Does this machine payout correctly on small jackpots like 1 or 2 cherrys thru the plums and bells, or are all jackpots off? I saw the early post stating payouts, but I did see if those were corrected? If its paying correct on 2 thru 20 coin jackpots the larger ones shouldn't be too far off? The larger 50 and up jackpot are usually controlled by the wiper fingers on the chrome piece on top of the spiral cam. The top and bottom wipers are adjusted by loosing the two screws holding them in place.

Gary

[shortrackskater]

 It was paying properly for small payouts...but now it's paying only half of the smaller payouts. When I tried to adjust the fingers, it would pay one coin over on small payouts such as $1.05 instead of $1.00. I'm still confused on setting the "start point" of the payout fingers and the exact method.
What I'm doing is removing the cam spring, setting the fingers just short of the 6 position, setting one time, then winding the spring two and a half times.
This seems to get it close on the smaller payouts. Hope this makes sense! As I said earlier, it sometimes will pay correctly and sometimes not...nothing is consistent. Most of the large payouts are short...well they were when I checked before.
One thing it did do last night (it did this a long time ago and then stopped) was the WINNER PAID and COIN ACCEPTED lights stopped working although it would still pay out. I opened the door and pulled out the reel set and pushed it back in and then it worked. I have no idea what's causing this but now it's not happening at all.
 

[shortrackskater]

Got back to working on the machine tonight and discovered the piston plunger thing was not moving smoothly. I took it apart to find the neoprene seal/washer thing had completely turned to "liquid gun." ICK! I think this was causing my INSERT COIN light to be intermittent since the switch wasn't getting tripped when the handle returned. Off to the WTB section and hope to be back here when the part is in. Then I'll get back to the weird payout issues, which are consistently inconsistent...too many and too few coins payout. 

[CVslots]

You are on the right track now!!  Good job!!

[OldReno]

The piston problem has been discussed before, so try to find that thread.  I suspect you could cut a small donut out of a flat piece of inner tube that would fit over the piston and give you at least some degree of air compression.
Keep us posted on your payout problems, and elaborate as much as you can about just which pays are bad, and on how many coins in.  The more you can tell us, the better we can help....

[shortrackskater]

Got the piston to work by just cleaning it out and removing the gunk. Works fine w/o the seal.
I started posting by accident in my WTB post. So I'm cutting and pasting my response HERE so it's not in the wrong place. Couldn't seem to find a moderator there.

[shortrackskater]

Okay did all the cleaning and degumming. The piston now sets the arm back properly each time but I'm still having trouble with the INSERT COIN light being intermittent but it is NOT coming back on when I wiggle the handle so I know that piston was (WAS) one of my problems. Frustrating still, but I know I've got one thing out of the way.
UPDATE: cleaned my beau plugs on the reel assy. and the back of the machine and got both lights...again. I've cleaned those numerous times with contact cleaner. This time I used wd40 and wiped the excess as amechanic told me.
But this thing has been intermittent so I'll try a few plays and see if sticks. Then I'm back to the over/under pays.

More: Okay it definitely affects the both lights when I wiggle the reel assembly. Should I just stop now and replace ALL the beau plugs? I've cleaned them to death. I don't know what else I can do although it's going to take some time to do all that rewiring. Any other ideas? Someone once told me they should never be cleaned...that they had a sliver coating and that it's better to leave them alone.
More again: I shot my good contact cleaner on the plugs again and the light SEEM to be working. Maybe I can live with this for awhile but still wonder if I should replace the plugs. I'm getting correct pays on one coin wins and only "one over" pays on multi coin wins.
I'm done for the night. I hope the lights work next time I turn this on!

[shortrackskater]

(the following are the replies from the WTB section that I should have started here...my fault)

Take your OHM meter and connect one end to the common wire of your coin lights and with the other probe check your beau plug to locate what pin is giving you the problem, of course with the power off.. Check it's condition as well as the other male plug. Most of those beau plugs have at least one open connection you could relocate the wire to.
Gary



Thanks Gary...I'll try that. Have you or anyone ever replaced the entire plug? I wish I could somehow "redo" the existing pins somehow, so the connection is tighter.

(Below is from OldReno)

Since you've cleaned your Beau plugs repeatedly, I doubt that's where your problems are.  A lot of folks get into trouble dicking around with those plugs, they are usually pretty trouble free.
Your insert coin light should be (partly) controlled by a N.C. set of switches on your odds unit.  When the odds unit steps up to max coins, that switch should open, turning off the insert coin light.  If that switch does not make good enough firm contact when the odds unit resets, that may be part of your problem. 
Darrell gave me an old 1088 schematic, and while the wiring may not be exactly the same as yours, it should be similar enough to help diagnose this problem.  The 1088 shows that the insert coin light is controlled by 1 switch on the payout relay (this one switch also powers the coin accepted and winner paid lights, so that would only be the problem if all of your 3 lights were out).  The second set of switches is the odds unit 'open at top' switch (I talked about it above), and the 3rd switch in line is the Reel mech C2 switch. 
There is one other switch in that circuit which is important, and it is the coin relay switch which also controls the coin accepted light.  This switch, in reset position, runs the insert coin light.  When the coin relay is tripped, then that switch moves to light up the coin accepted light.  It is a two way switch, one side lights "insert coin", the other side lights "coin accepted".
This is a very clever circuit, but would take a  long time to explain, so, follow the wire from your insert coin light from the door back to the reel mech C switches.  It may be a red wire with black trace (18) coming from the door, and you should find it on your C stack. From there it should change color on the other side of the switch to maybe a yellow with brown wire (36).  This 36 wire splits and one side goes to the coin relay switches.  The other 36 goes to the odds unit.
Now, both of these 36 wires meet up with an orange wire with a red trace (71), and this 71 wire goes to the payout relay switches, and finally back to the 30 wire (plain yellow).
I'm convinced that one of your switch contacts is either dirty, or not pushing enough pressure onto its mate switch to give you a good circuit.  Or at least it is an intermittent circuit.
Use your meter to test the coin relay switch 36 to 71 wire, and also meter the odds unit switch 36 to 71 wire.
I'm betting the coin relay switch is not contacting firmly enough.... If so, bend it to put more pressure on it.
So anyway, there are only 4 switches to check.  Use your meter and also your eye to make sure you see those switches move when they contact.
And finally, if they check out ok, then you can go the the correct pin on your Beau plug, and with pliers very gently give a little bit of a twist to the male pin that you suspect is not contacting.  That should give better connection, but please don't do that until you have ohmed out all your switches. Messing around with beau plugs without needing to may cause more problems than when you started.

[OldReno]

Please don't mess with the Beau plugs.
Try all the things in my last post, and then, ONLY if needed, twist the male pins on your Plugs to get better contact.
I have replaced many beau plugs, and MOST of the problems with them have been due to people dicking around with them.
You can ohm them out point to point, you don't need to weaken the integrity of the harness by fussing with them.
Please note, I will not respond until you have checked out those 4 switches as I suggested.
Love and kisses, but I cannot help until I know you have tested them.
If anything about that is unclear, PM me.

[shortrackskater]

Absolutely will do!!! I will refrain from posting until my assignment is done.

[OldReno]

Good thing, I was ready to take away a Karma Storm point.  LOL.

[shortrackskater]

 

[shortrackskater]

Good thing, I was ready to take away a Karma Storm point.  LOL.

I just wrote a huge paragraph of info and it ALL disappeared! I think my pictures were too  big. I pressed refresh and everything I wrote vanished!
I'll try again but it's going to be abbreviated. Please don't "dekarmafy" me!!!  
I traced the red/black wire to the where it goes in the reel assembly. Checked that switch which was below reel #1. That split into the two wires and one went back to the plug and off the the hopper. I couldn't, for the life of me, find the other one. I'm getting sleepy...maybe that's why.
At the hopper, that wire went up the what I assume is the coin payout relay. This wire was yellow with black tracer. I started checking that switch and found one part that not making full contact...as if there was a small resistor in there. After multiple cleanings and a little bending, it made full contact.
I needed to stop for the night so I just put it all back together. As of now, the COIN ACCEPTED, INSERT COIN, and WINNER PAID lights are all working as they should. Here's some pictures of where I was cleaning.  
I'll be back in the morning!

[OldReno]

Nice pics!
I think it's important to say that when you are tracing continuity from a light on the door back into the machine, that you MUST REMOVE the bulb from the socket that you are testing. 
As we PM'd earlier, I had forgotten to tell you that very important point, and then because of that you wasted a lot of your time chasing circuits around your Beau plugs.  You were getting feedback through the bulb element and through other circuits in the machine, so you were unable to accurately trace the proper circuit.
Again, I apologize, and hope that anyone else who traces 6v lights remembers this.
Do not try tracing a 6V circuit, with the bulb still in the socket.
No no no.
@shortrackskater, make sure that switch you adjusted opens when it should, and is not staying closed when it's supposed to be open. 
Actually I don't think that's the right switch (should be a NC one), but since you cleaned it, and the lights work, well, that works for me.  If the problem comes up again, we'll go at it again.
Nice work.

[shortrackskater]

Actually I don't think that's the right switch (should be a NC one), but since you cleaned it, and the lights work, well, that works for me.  If the problem comes up again, we'll go at it again.
Nice work.

I know one thing I could do...just to see...let me know though before I blow up anything!
What if I take the hopper back out and temporarily insulate that switch??? That way I would know exactly what it does. I did notice that the contact points seemed rough...as if there may have been some arcing at one time. My contact cleaner/heavy brown paper wasn't enough so I used 600 sandpaper...very lightly!  I know not to do that on the wipers due to their shape. Hope that was okay here. It was the only thing that got the contact to make contact. I sprayed a little bit of my contact cleaner back on that area. I think it adds a coating as well.

Now I'm back to the payout issue again. It seems to be right on for the single through three coin payouts. At higher payouts it pays out one or more coins as the award amount increases.

[OldReno]

Rather than sandpaper, try to find a small piece of very thin flexible metal, and you can use that as it will not wear any of the button off the switch.  Put the piece in and gently squeeze the switch closed, and then buff it just a bit.
Also, you can put a small piece of matchbook paper in between closed switches to see how that affects your circuitry.  Just for kicks.
Let me ponder your high pay one coin overpays for a bit.  Perhaps someone can jump in here with suggestions?  Are all your 100 teeth on the paygear good?

[shortrackskater]

Rather than sandpaper, try to find a small piece of very thin flexible metal, and you can use that as it will not wear any of the button off the switch.  Put the piece in and gently squeeze the switch closed, and then buff it just a bit.
Also, you can put a small piece of matchbook paper in between closed switches to see how that affects your circuitry.  Just for kicks.
Let me ponder your high pay one coin overpays for a bit.  Perhaps someone can jump in here with suggestions?  Are all your 100 teeth on the paygear good?

Okay I will refrain from the sandpaper...it was very fine though...like what you'd colorsand a car with. I DO have a cheap feeler guage set and those are very flexible ...I'll try that next time. The teeth in my gear all look good. I may mess with that spring again and try one more or less wind. I'm definitely not getting erratic pays anymore, which is good.

UPDATE: I stuck some business card paper in that switch and saw NO change! The lights all worked! So much for my idea. Now it won't "break."

[OldReno]

Great idea! A feeler gauge should work just fine.  It will burnish rather than filing your points.  Most excellent suggestion!!! Thank you.
Try 1/4 less turns on your spring to see if that helps with overpay.
Business cards in the switches work really well to see what affects the machine, and how.  Fun to play with, but be cautious as you don't want to leave any coils or solenoids on for too long a time. They'll melt.
+1

[shortrackskater]

Quick question. Is it okay to pull the hopper and reel assy with power on? I always power OFF just to be safe. Maybe that was a dumb question!

[OldReno]

I do.  It's not like you have any electronics in there to fry.  No worry with EMP on these machines....
I've never had a problem with Hot plugging.