UK IGT machine issues!

[5playleisure]

Hello, I'm resedent in the UK and there is NO support for IGT machines of ANY type here.  Infact, the UK has a VERY small amount of USA made IGT machines of any kind!

I imported a couple - (Iron Legion, & Red/Whit/Blue) and they look great, unfortunately though, they have problems. 

The R/W/B says 'Battery low', even AFTER I changed the battery for a new one (and tested at 3.6 volts)

The Iron Legion has a ram error 51.

I wonder if someone could point me to a post which explains EXACTLY how to do a ram clear, or a reset, or better still, reply to this message with some hints and tips for me!

I am a beginner with these machines, so please don't make it too technical guys!!  Many thanks for all your help thus far, and any information would be very gratefully received.

Best regards,

James

[knagl]

Greetings from the US, and welcome to NLG, James.

To do a RAM clear, you need a clear chip.  Do you have one of those?

Also, you said that one of your machines is saying "Battery low."  Is it actually saying that on a display, or just showing an error 12 in the window?

A couple of pictures of the outside and inside of the problem machines would probably help at this point.

[5playleisure]

Many thanks for your reply, and offer of help!

I don't have a ram clear chip         Is there anywhere that I can download an 'image' to burn this to a chip?  Failing that, does anyone burn and ship these for a few £'s (or $'s!).  I did hear that you can clear most errors without having a ram clear chip, by pressing certain buttons, and turning keys, but I don't know which buttons and keys these are.

I will take pictures and post immediately.

The Red/White/Blue machine lights up, and beeps, while displaying 'low bat 61'.  This is even AFTER I tired a new battery in it, and tested the battery to be 3.6v.

The other machine, Iron Legion (with the glass that was broken in shipping), lights up and beeps and displays 'ram err 51'

Pics added!  Many thanks Guys!

James

[5playleisure]

The Iron Legion has a dark green type board fitted.  Pic attatched.  The R/W/B has a sort of light brown board fitted.  I presume these were different 'generations' of board?

I hear many people talk about these machines being fitted with 'old' and 'new' chips.  From what I can see, there are only TWO chips that have labels attatched to them, so I presume these are the programme and reel control chips?  Or am I totally wrong? 
I would also presume that the other chips fitted to the boards are just standard replaceable chips that don't need to be changed, unless they fail?  Or do you guys upgrade OTHER chips on these machines? 

Sorry to be such a novice!  I;m quite familliar with pinball machines, and understand the programme chips have different 'revisions' done.  I presume this is what the slots have.  Just simply newer versions of the programme (or reel) control chips?

[rickhunter]

We have seen the error 51 before on your type of machine.  The temporary fix (which would make it playable) was to hit the reset button inside the machine, close the door and turn the jackpot reset key once.  The problem was that the error came back after the machine ware re-powered.  My feeling is that there's issues with the Ram chip(s) on the MPU board, but I can't be 100% sure.   Try doing the reset button press once, closing the door and turning the jackpot reset key on the other machine as well, it might clear the low battery error.  The problem we have troubleshooting your machine is that it's a VERY early model, and your two machines are two of the 3 machines of that type we have EVER seen since in this board since it was born in Oct of 2005.  The newer S+ machines have a different panel look and does not have the multi-dot led display that is showing your error codes.  

[knagl]

I'm not familiar with your particular model of machine, but traditionally a 61 error can be resolved by pressing and holding the white reset button next to the power switch for a few seconds.  The 61 should turn to a 61-1, at which point you can close the door, then turn the jackpot reset key.

If that doesn't work, I guess the next step would be to try a RAM clear.  One of the vendors listed at the top of the page (either Joey at NLG, Jim at Blueridge, or April at Leman's) should be able to sell you and ship you the chip you need.

[stayouttadabunker]

There's another ongoing thread at this time very similiar to this one involving a "Code 51" error AND US ARMY chips...

[5playleisure]

Apparently, a guy in the UK bought a job lot of around 200 of these IGT machines that were meant to go to the US army about twenty years ago. 
Apapently they never did, and sat in a base for around 20 years, untouched.

I have heard that these 'army' chips are different to the standard ones.  Does anyone know in what way?

It was mentioned that these are very 'early' machines - can you tell that by the machine design?  Or the titles of the machines?  Or the board and chip types?

Talking of chips - does anyone know if it is JUST the reel and game proms that (sometimes) need to be upgraded, or do you guys update other chips on the board?  And how would I tell if the game and reel chips on my board are up-to-date?  Surely if the game was sent out with these chips, it should control it ok?

I talked to the guy I got them from, and he tells me they may not even be the right chips in the game boards.  Oh dear.  Major headache time.

[theDotster]

Hello and welcome 5play,

I'm in the UK too, does this guy you bought them from know where the other 198 are because I'd love to have one!

I've noticed a few machine on ebay in this country just recently after a dry spell of about 18months, a couple sold by one of the members from here.

Regarding chips, I don't own an IGT reel machine, but from what I've read, the two main chips are the Game chip and the Reel chips and as you say, provided you don't change game type you won't ever need to 'upgrade' them.

I also understand that it is possible to change game type by only changing one of the chips, I think the Reel one (correct me if wrong someone), and this is because the game works the same but the symobls are in different positions.

Did you get an answer to your lock question on another thread yet, the position of it sounds like the 'Jackpot Reset' lock. You should be able to buy a key for it, but in the meantime, you can disconnect the wires, take out the lock and then put the wires through the hole in the cab, then when you need to do a reset, just touch the wires together to simulate the key being turned and then seperate them.

Now a caveat, wait until the real experts have picked my advise apart before doing anything!!

Out of interest are you located in the Midlands as that is where most of these machines seem to be coming from, so I guess the Army base was in that area.

Paul

[5playleisure]

Hi Paul,

I'm up in Chesterfield. 

We operate machines in the area, and I'm mainly a pinball boffin, having around 70 machines.  Anyone interested in Pinball in the UK, should check out the thriving pinball UK forum on yahoo.co.uk

I disconnected the wires off the lock already, and extended them outside the machine, but wasn't aware there was a white reset button.  This would probably explain why the key button did nothing!?

It must be pretty boring just changing the reel chip to change the game type?  Unless of course, this also brings new sounds too.  If it just allows different jackpots from getting 3 'bars', then is there really a need?

I know there is one guy in the UK who seems to be a bit of an expert, called Steve, and another guy who has a barn full of these machines locally....  Only it seems to be a problem getting to them! 

The machines on UK ebay seem to be going for £300+, although I can get them for £200 each, 'as seen', depending on game.....

[rickhunter]

The game changes on the S+ machines can be classified like this:

1.  Change the reel chip to change outcome probabilities, this would alter the payback percentage on your machine.  Each game theme has multiple Reel Chips that determine how often the machine pays, the payback varies typically between 75% up to 99%.

2.  Change themes (Glass, Reel Strips, Reel Chip and sometimes Game Chip).  This is basically like buying a new machine, it willl have different symbols and different payout combinations, just like you had another machine.

3.  Some games use strips that have similar symbols in the same position, and the paytable "looks" the same.  But the game may have additional features like nudging (where a symbol moves up or down to the payline after all 3 reels stop), Haywire (where the machine repeats a pay at random).  The notable games that can do this sort of thing is Double Diamond (which can then acquire a haywire effect with the right chips) and Triple Diamond (which can acquire the nudge with the right chips).  This type of change alters the way the game plays.


Unfortunately the S+ is not really a multimedia machine when it comes to sounds, that's why a lot of people upgrade to the S2000 slots. The S+ only has some basic sounds:

1.  Reel Spin "music"
2.  Reel stop
3.  Jackpot sound
4.  In haywire games, the haywire noise.
5.  The game Tidal wave has a white noise effect to simulate waves.
6.  The game Volcano has a "noise" emulating an erupting volcano (doesn't really sound like an erupting volcano)
7.  The games that have the "spin 'til you win" feature will play a tune during the bonus game. In some Game chips you can have a pick of any 1 of 6 tunes, on the newer chips, there's only 1 tune that plays.
8.  The games with the Double Spin themes play a tune while the 3rd reel respins when the right combination is hit.

I'm sure I'm missing a sound or two, but you get the general idea.  The sound on the S+ is pretty much a tone generator that can play only 1 note at a time, in other words it's not a polyphonic.  The S2000's on the other hand, have a multimedia board that can play full sound samples and polyphonic melodies.

[theDotster]

I disconnected the wires off the lock already, and extended them outside the machine, but wasn't aware there was a white reset button.  This would probably explain why the key button did nothing!?

I would say so. Like I said I don't have a reel machine, but a PE+ and a GameKing both video machines. When making changes/resets you press the white button to enter the various 'pages' and then turn the key to make selections.

It must be pretty boring just changing the reel chip to change the game type?  Unless of course, this also brings new sounds too.  If it just allows different jackpots from getting 3 'bars', then is there really a need?

Again this  where someone will jump in I hope and clarify. You may well be able to change the Game chip on it's own to add things like Wild feature and nudge like operations whereby winning symbols move up from the line below and stuff like that.

You've joined the forum at an interesting time when there is lots of updating going on. Hopefully some of the technical experts and suppliers will be able to help further

I know there is one guy in the UK who seems to be a bit of an expert, called Steve, and another guy who has a barn full of these machines locally....  Only it seems to be a problem getting to them!

Is this the same Steve that deals in Pachislo's?

The machines on UK ebay seem to be going for £300+, although I can get them for £200 each, 'as seen', depending on game.....

Can you elaborate on 'as seen' and what games are available?

Paul



**** EDIT ****

Thanks Rick, I like the new warning that tells you someone posted while you were typing. 

It doesn't look like I was too far off the truth with the above.

[5playleisure]

Nah, that Steve is Steven Hood of 777Heaven fame. 
We imported a load of machines from Japan, and used to regularly deal with Steve.  He's now STOPPED importing those machines due to the rising cost of scrap overseas, and the cost of storage here in the UK.

Not sure what the 'other' Steves second name is, but I've spoken to him a few times.  He sold some old IGT slots on ebay recently.

The slots that are available can be bought 'as seen', meaning they are complete and sold as 'untested'.  Most are still in the same position as were stored YEARS ago. 

I have list somewhere - there was alsorts.  I almost had a 'sapphire' too, but ran out of £££'s

[theDotster]

Thats the guy, Steve Hood, he used to live at the end of my road, I bought my first machine from him and I'd heard he stopping selling.

But if you can put me in touch with Steve or the guy with a barn full I'd be interested. Did you buy from either of these?

Were the old IGT's Steve was selling Slant tops?

I'd love to have a pinball, but defo don't have the room for that.

And excuse my ignorance, but what is a 'Sapphire'?

Paul

[knagl]

It was mentioned that these are very 'early' machines - can you tell that by the machine design?  Or the titles of the machines?  Or the board and chip types?

The early S+ had the LED credit meters on the right side of the reel glass (like yours).  Later ones had the displays on the reel glass below the three reels, and had embedded dollar bill acceptors.

Also, most S+ machines don't have the dot-matrix LED display on the reel glass like yours does.

[5playleisure]

Paul - Steve was on ebay a while ago selling a Red White Blue.  He says he didn't have any more machines, but could get spares from the USA easily enough.  £75 I think he mentioned for a motherboard.  Not sure if thats cheap? ($150), but sounds a lot for a slot boards.  I suppose you have to consider shipping, import duty, etc etc.  You should be able to look back at past auctions and contact him!

Sapphire was another S+ machine that looked nice, and nearly had.

I'm currently in talks about a job lot price for the IGTs, so will let you know how I get on  ;0)

Where are you based Paul?

 

[theDotster]

Hi,

It's hard to judge the price of the boards in this country; as you know they are few and far between. But shipping isn't too expensive, about $40, where you get stung is the import duty.

I've bought a few things from the sellers listed at the top of these pages, Lemans1969, Blueridge, and Midas to name check a couple. Sometimes the stuff got through without getting picked up which was nice.

I'm in Kent a few miles from your location, but I'm not afraid to travel, I got my GameKing in the back of the car from Sheffield.

If you get a job lot, let me know.

Paul

[Frank A]

To 5playleisure:
 Hello again in a different forum. Would it be possible for you to tell me what the dip switch settings are on the Ram 51 error machine ? I don't get any sound and cannot change mine to Cash/Credit option. You don't happen to have a manual that tells anything about what settings are available with the jackpot key ? Do you get any sound or haven't you had the reels spinning yet ?  We seem to be getting closer to the solution to the 51 Ram Error problem.  Now there are two of us with the issue.
Try the reset sequence that I sent to you in the other forum.
Frank A

[rickhunter]

You posted on the other thread that swapping CPU boards still gave you the error.  Then I'm inclined to believe the problem is with the EEPROM chip that is on the motherboard. It's a small 8 pin chip that is typically soldered on it.  They are inexpensive (about $2.00 or so), but a pain to replace if you don't have the proper desoldering tools.  Sometimes is easier to buy a used backplane (motherboard) as they can be had for around $10.00 

[Frank A]

Thanks. Who would have one and where do I find a model number to order the correct one ?

Frank

[stayouttadabunker]

 Got to mouser.com and punch in the mouser part # 698-CAT24CO4LI-G.
I got them there fairly cheap!
Good luck!

 
 
   
 Product Detail 
All Products » Semiconductors » Memory » EEPROM » CAT24C04LI-G 
 
 Manufacturer Part #: CAT24C04LI-G
Mouser Part #: 698-CAT24C04LI-G
Manufacturer: Catalyst Semiconductor
Description: EEPROMs - Serial (512x8) 4K 1.8-5.5
  Page: 227
Pricing
1:  $0.42 
25:  $0.34 
100:  $0.32 
250:  $0.29 
500:  $0.272

Specifications
Manufacturer:  Catalyst Semiconductor   
 
Product Category:  EEPROM   
 
RoHS:   Details   
 
Memory Size:  4 Kbit   
 
Organization:  512 x 8   
 
Package / Case:  PDIP   
 
Interface Type:  I2C   
 
Maximum Clock Frequency:  0.4 MHz   
 
Access Time:  900 ns   
 
Supply Voltage (Max):  5.5 V   
 
Supply Voltage (Min):  1.8 V   
 
Maximum Operating Current:  2 mA   
 
Maximum Operating Temperature:  85 C   
 
Minimum Operating Temperature:  - 40 C   
 
Packaging:  Tube   
 
Operating Supply Voltage:  2.5 V or 3.3 V or 5 V   

[Frank A]

Thanks. That will be my Monday project.

Frank A