On coinup 742A chatters

[Jeff99]

Hi,
I have been rebuilding a 742A that I got out of someones damp storage shed.  The reel mech and hopper have been take apart and bead blasted, new bottom, re-chromed everything - machine was in tough shape!  Got it back together and had it working.  It paid OK for the fruit symbols 3, 5,10,14, and 18 coins, but not the multiples of 10, 100, 200, etc.   started work on that and now I have a problem.

When I coin up the machine chatters:
      1. The hopper moves and often times spits a coin or two. 
      2. It has stopped paying on a fruit winner (cherry), but on next coin up spits out the winnings.
      3. Payout relay and switch chatter and you can see the arcing away.
      4. Handle release solenoid chatters and won't seat it self.
      5. after 10 or 15 seconds the handle release sets its self and the machine will play.

"Fixes" leading up to this:
     1. Wired together dashpot wires.
     2. Re-soldered broken wire to wiper board.
     3. Fixed broken 50 coin wire and re-soldered to payout board.
     4.  Did push on payout relay plate:
           A. that effort fixed a bad connection with the diverter coin and it now hums along.
           B. Rechecked the switches with another hopper and they appear to be OK, and when they close they do bend their mate correctly.
           C. check the solenoid using my external power supply and the solenoid stays locked when 50 volts applied
      5. Coin relay switches appear OK.

Any suggestions where I should look?
Thanks,
Jeff

     

[OldReno]

Take some time and check all of your switches for proper open and closures.  Make sure they fully close and fully open. Read my post on checking switches. http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=17603.0 and that may help.
Also check the post on checking for shorts.
You can pull all of your armatures (coin relay, handle release, and coin relay) and hit them with a file if they have developed 'ridges'.
But I suspect you have improper switches contacting somewhere.
Sounds like a really cool problem...I'm game.

[Jeff99]

Thanks for the advice.  Will examine later this week when I'm not so frustrated!
Regards,
Jeff

[OldReno]

Sorry, missed the second half of your post.
1. The dashpot can be wired together for home use.
2. Good
3. Good
4. A. Diverter coil goes only through your 'wiffle ball' hopper level sensor.  You may have accidentally moved it when checking hopper.
    B. So the problem is in the original hopper?  Make sure all your payboard contacts have good pressure/tension.
    C. Which solenoid did you check?  Read my post on using jumpers, to use the machine's power supply....
5. Again, go through all your switches.  All of them.  It teaches you the machine.

You get a 10 out of 10 for your diagnostics, and a 9 out of ten for explaining the problems thoroughly.
Good job. I love to read well written and comprehensive symptoms!!!!!!!
Thanks,
OldReno

[OldReno]

Mornin'.  Rereading your post, and here's an idea about your handle release coil chattering.
On the handle release coil assembly, you have a set or more of handle release switches.
When the handle paddle drops for handle pull, one of those sets of switches (which is normally closed) is supposed to open.
It is basically a safety switch which forces the handle coil to turn off. If that switch wasn't there, then the coil would stay hot until you pull the handle, and the coil would eventually burn up.
You have two wires to the coil itself.  One should be an orange (70 wire), and the other one you should be able to trace back to one of your handle release switches. That switch is the one we're talking about, and it should fully open when the paddle drops.
Of course, if it never closes you will never get handle pull, but it is more common to see it stay closed and thus the chattering you're talking about happens then.

[Jeff99]

Thanks for the tip.  Will keep you posted this weekend.
Jeff

[Jeff99]

Thanks OldReno Fixed it.    

One of the things I hadn't mentioned because I had done it 'right ' was clean the hopper payout unit.   The machine was in a damp crappy garage when I got it, so everything needed cleaning - i took  the torsion spring off and put that in my HF vibrating cleaner to knock the rust off.  When I reassembled it I caught the step-up arm switch in the extension spring.  It held the switch open, but must have grounded it out.  After I got it untangled it stopped chattering.

Once I got the payout reset to reset properly the machine pays out fine for the cherrys, oranges and plums but not for the $2.50, $5.00, $7.50 and hold you hat $10.00 reel pays.  Thankfully that is a different problem.  This is the 13,000 742A and it is interesting to see the payouts that casinos thought were attractive back then and in comparison to the mechanicals that were being phased out.

Thanks again,
Jeff

[OldReno]

Good to hear!
Your high pays are controlled by the outboard hopper wipers.  that set of two long arms that make contact onto the 50, 100, and 200 pays.  Make sure they are contacting well, and check that the jumper wire between the two sets is good.
Also, with a high pay set up on the reels, wiggle them (the reels) and pull them slightly forward to see if anything happens.
Sounds like you're making good progress.
Yes, the pays are interesting.  When bally came out, that eliminated the need for change people to make many of the jackpot pays.  The old one arm bandits only paid 20 coins max, so all other pays needed an attendant.  Casinos loved it because they were able to reduce their staff and payroll.  At the rate they're going, soon they will be almost automated, and require just one or two people to run a whole casino.
Oh well.  Kinda sucks.

[Jeff99]

Got it fixed and it does work or did.  I must have jostled something putting the reel mech in and out.  It does pay on the Big payouts - taking my $2.50 and get a shrimp cocktail!  I'm down to essentially reliable play problems now, so thanks again.
jeff

[OldReno]

You get a karma, for whatever that's worth.
Wasn't that fun?  You're now a member of the 'secret brotherhood'.
Rule #1, we don't talk about the Secret Brotherhood....
My that shrimp cocktail sure sounds nice.