Green BS has me enraged

[jdkmunch]

I call BS on this ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/IGT-S2000-LED-Lighting-Upgrade-/350586858170?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51a09aeaba#ht_500wt_924

Look I love the LED lights -  In fact I have them on all my machines.  $95 for three tubes is about right - nothing special here.

What I take objection too is the energy savings - I have a huge UPS hooked up to my machines that shows exactly what the load is and how many watts are being used.

Now unless I'm wrong (which I hope I am) the slot power supply is using the same power - if I have a fluorescent bulb or LED  - ZERO difference in the amount of WATTS used.


 In theory the LED bulbs use less electric.  But I haven't seen it.  I have 7 machines and they cost me 700W with them all on.   All things considered it's about the cost of my living room lighting  9 high hats @75W each

[idesign]

OK, so how are they powered up if you don't use the 24V ballast?

[poppo]

It really depends on the LEDs. Some of these super bright ones use quite a bit of power (and do get pretty warm). But typically all things considered, LEDs do use less power. With incandescent and fluorescent lights, a lot of power is wasted as heat. So in theory if both use the same amount of power, the LEDs should be brighter.

[poppo]

OK, so how are they powered up if you don't use the 24V ballast?

They use the 24V that normally goes TO the ballast.

[jdkmunch]

OK, so how are they powered up if you don't use the 24V ballast?

They bypass the ballast and plug into the plug that would go in the ballast

[CommTech]

You will definitely have a substantial savings with LED over Florescent.   I recently replaced my 3 F15 florescent tubes in my S-2000 with the LED style and seen an overall drop of 25% in Primary current draw.
I measured before - 1.02 Amps @115 VAC at Idol (Total machine draw)
After - 0.75 Amps.
Quite substantial if you leave your machine running, or have multiple machines.
Other advantages would be: Much less heat, brighter, and longer lasting.
 
Now my machine already had LED button lights, which also help in savings over incandescent. (Since my machine came with the LED button lights I have no before or after stats).

 

[jdkmunch]

This is what I was hoping - my ups does NOT show amp draw

"Other advantages would be: Much less heat, brighter, and longer lasting."  -  I agree all of my machines have LED buttons and I love the look.  I would recommend to everyone.


However,  I have not noticed a cent difference in energy usage.   

[idesign]

OK, so how are they powered up if you don't use the 24V ballast?

They bypass the ballast and plug into the plug that would go in the ballast

OK, so then it goes directly to 120V source then.  No transformer losses and less current draw.

[poppo]

This is what I was hoping - my ups does NOT show amp draw
  

Amps and watts are proportional if the reference voltage is the same. Generally speaking watts=amps x voltage. So if your UPS is monitoring the 115VAC input line, it "should" show a reduction. However, the meters in the UPS are not usually very accurate.

[poppo]

OK, so then it goes directly to 120V source then.  No transformer losses and less current draw.

No, it does not work that way. The input to a S2000 ballast is 24V (vice 115 for a S+).

However, there is some loss in the ballast due to heat. The biggest power saving is overall reduction in HEAT which is where most of the inefficiency takes place.

[idesign]

Based upon CommTech's results your difference in watts is so small that it may not be showing up on your UPS unless the meter is very precise.

[jdkmunch]

This is what I was hoping - my ups does NOT show amp draw
  

Amps and watts are proportional if the reference voltage is the same. Generally speaking watts=amps x voltage. So if your UPS is monitoring the 115VAC input line, it "should" show a reduction. However, the meters in the UPS are not usually very accurate.

Exactly what I was thinking but it is not true-  

I had two machines on   - one for sure was an s2000 the other might have been an 044 or 3902 whatever

1.  I was drawing 200w when the s2000 was full fluorescent \
2.  I replaced 3 fluorecent tubes with LED tubes bypassing the ballasts

love it.

3.  Still drawing 200w after the conversion.

The only actual - real - documented power savings I see is when I disconnect the LCD monitor from the i-game - then the Watts goes down.

[jdkmunch]

Based upon CommTech's results your difference in watts is so small that it may not be showing up on your UPS unless the meter is very precise.

but then how could it possibly matter in cost savings ??????

<sorry> I get worked up over this (that's why it's in the rant section)  What sets me off is when I see:
 "OH YOU CAN SAVE ____ WHEN YOU REPLACE YOUR BULB WITH ____"

For me I don't see a dime - just more expense for the bulb.

Some things do save money - I put in a 98% efficiency boiler and split unit air conditioners in each room.   I now leave the house at 70 all year round for much less than the old energy hogs.

**** and I must qualify we left the house at 60 in the winter with our old boiler

In fact my wife and I sleep at 64 degrees in our bedroom

[poppo]

The only actual - real - documented power savings I see is when I disconnect the LCD monitor from the i-game - then the Watts goes down.

By how much? The meter may go in 5, 10, or 20 watt increments.  The only way to tell for sure is to measure the current draw of the LED tube and multiply it by 24. So if the tube draws .5 amp, it would be 12 watts. Note: there are some variables in the formula, but it would be close enough for this purpose.

[poppo]

but then how could it possibly matter in cost savings ??????

Let's say you pay 10 cents a kilowatt hour for electricity. If you have 3 15 watt fluorescent bulbs, that is 45 watts total.  45 watts x 24 hours time 30 days = 32400 watts or 32 kilowatt hours a month. So your total bill for just the fluorescents being on for 24/7 would be $3.20 a month. If you cut that in half with LEDs, you would only see a difference of $1.60 a month. And that is if the machine was on 24/7.

[jdkmunch]

but then how could it possibly matter in cost savings ??????

Let's say you pay 10 cents a kilowatt hour for electricity. If you have 3 15 watt fluorescent bulbs, that is 45 watts total.  45 watts x 24 hours time 30 days = 32400 watts or 32 kilowatt hours a month. So your total bill for just the fluorescents being on for 24/7 would be $3.20 a month. If you cut that in half with LEDs, you would only see a difference of $1.60 a month. And that is if the machine was on 24/7.

Exactly -  THEN  - throw in the weather - oh it was a bit hotter or colder

It's impossible to see or notice the amount saved. 

[jdkmunch]

Just to brighten everyone's day here's my utility bill:

[poppo]

So the power savings are there, it's just that in comparison to the whole machine, it is not that much.

[poppo]

Just to brighten everyone's day here's my utility bill:

Yikes! That looks like the ones I had in CA. Here, my bill avearges about $165.00 a month.

[jdkmunch]

my bill avearges about $165.00 a month.

Phone bill? lol

[jdkmunch]

I'm curious  - forget the dollar amounts

How do I compare to everyone's Kwh use?  - - My house is about 2000sf  not including a 1000sf basement (where all the magic happens  )

[stormrider]

Just to brighten everyone's day here's my utility bill:

Hey Munch,

I think were in the same state, I was looking at the utility bill you posted.
Funny thing my electric bill came today.
Anyway I used 771kWh cost me $108.34 supplier is National Grid
The same amount you used between 3/9/12- 4/9/12 and you paid $184.12

Believe me I've had the $185.00 + electric bills
But that was when the wife still lived here...LOL

I know this post is off topic but just wanted to share that
But holy crap ola do you pay some high rates.

Tim

[jdkmunch]

  


It feels good to vent

[idesign]

Just to brighten everyone's day here's my utility bill:

Holy crap, you must be rich or own stock in a power company.   Mine is about $110 a month in the summer with AC on most of the time.....about 1900 sf.

[jdkmunch]

HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT!!!

I went down stairs to get another rum and coke  -   and hit this!!!!!!!

 

No more rants from me!

*cough - those are LED bulbs!