Bally E Series 2090 TILT Error on real spins

[pinballfixer]

I have a 1982 -1985 Bally E 2090 , battery was dead so changed that out..it will coin and spin the reals but then goes to TILT. The +5 is 5.07 I have had all the plugs on and off to help with any poor connections.
My vintage Radio Shack INFERRED SENSOR reader show optic on on the first left real but none on the middle or right reals when in stand-by. Moving the real readers around any of them work in 1st position but not in the other 2 places. If I put the Game in OPTIC Test then I can see the optics are then working on 2nd & 3rd reals but not all of them seem to light ..but that may be because of spinning reals by hand.

Ordered a working I0 Board and still have the same problem.

My real mech board is a P2948-527  AS- 2983-2 with 2 plugs on it and the Manual I have only shows only a board made with 3 plugs .

Any idea of what else i can check? My next guess it bad chip on that Real Board. but don't have schematic for that....

[Jim]

did this machine ever work or did you acquire it as-is.?   first - there are two types of readers used in that machine, a 50 vac type- has a big 47 or 470 ohm resistor on it and incandescent light bulbs which you can see when doing the reel reader test #5.  the other type was a 5vdc  infra red type  which YOU CAN'T SEE when it operates.

when in the reel reader test #5 , you have to establish what numbers correspond to the  symbols.  sometimes it is marked on the front of the reel mech.  usually a "o"= a cherry, the others would be a number which would equal the symbol, as an example, 1=orange, 2= plum, 3= bell, 4=7, etc.   once you can determine the correct chart for your machine then you could test all the readers in one position to see if they work.  when in the #5 test ,slide the reel mech. half way out, (still engaged in the channels that align it with the plugs) slightly move the locking arm that engages the reel stop enough so you can rotate the reel to the desired position and not locking that arm in place. align all the reels to the same symbol, say a plum, and you have determined that on your machine the plum = 2, you should see a number two in the display for all the reels, if anything is different then that reel reader could be bad. then you could test each reel using the same method. if all these test  and you still have a tilt problem, I would test the switches on the rear of the mech. I think its test #3 that you can move each switch by hand and there should be a number that will come up in the display for each switch.

Hope this helps
Jim

[pinballfixer]

did this machine ever work or did you acquire it as-is.?   first - there are two types of readers used in that machine, a 50 vac type- has a big 47 or 470 ohm resistor on it and incandescent light bulbs which you can see when doing the reel reader test #5.  the other type was a 5vdc  infra red type  which YOU CAN'T SEE when it operates.

when in the reel reader test #5 , you have to establish what numbers correspond to the  symbols.  sometimes it is marked on the front of the reel mech.  usually a "o"= a cherry, the others would be a number which would equal the symbol, as an example, 1=orange, 2= plum, 3= bell, 4=7, etc.   once you can determine the correct chart for your machine then you could test all the readers in one position to see if they work.  when in the #5 test ,slide the reel mech. half way out, (still engaged in the channels that align it with the plugs) slightly move the locking arm that engages the reel stop enough so you can rotate the reel to the desired position and not locking that arm in place. align all the reels to the same symbol, say a plum, and you have determined that on your machine the plum = 2, you should see a number two in the display for all the reels, if anything is different then that reel reader could be bad. then you could test each reel using the same method. if all these test  and you still have a tilt problem, I would test the switches on the rear of the mech. I think its test #3 that you can move each switch by hand and there should be a number that will come up in the display for each switch.

Hope this helps
Jim

Jim, Thanks for the tips..Machine belongs to a friend and he said it has always worked good till this happened. Today had a dificult time getting it in to test..it would go as far as the second test then reset back to 50, door open...finally got it to go to #3 test and the cam switches on the back are working...the 1st real showes in test when you rotate it but not the other two....I moved the plug from #1 real to the middle real reader and then have good switch reading from that #2 real reader. This is the 5v optic style, useing a Infared Reader you can see that the #2 & #3 readers in stand-by are dark but give a partal reading in switch test.

Any other ideas?

[Jim]

my books only show the 50vac reader, if the 5volt version works the same way, then I would say you have a problem with the control bit, or ??   the 50vac is applied to all the readers when power is applied. when it is time for the readers to determine the binary code, the I/O board sends out a ground(reel lite signal) this signal and the 50vac are applied to all the lamps ( or in your case IR emitters) so everything is in parallel and all should come on regardless of any other action. then the control bit from the I/O board goes into the reel reader board, to that chip,  the output goes to the first reader (supplies a ground to all the IR detectors), the ones that conduct are the ones that the black reel code disc isn't blocking, that code is sent onto the cpu. then the next control bit is sent to the 2nd. reader, info is passed on to the cpu and finally the third control bit is sent to the 3rd. reader and the info is passed onto the cpu.  all of the output from the readers are in parallel also,  so in theory, if the first readers works, as long as power and that ground get to the 2 & 3 reader, the only thing is the control bit getting to the reader.  so you could have a wiring issue from the I/O board to the reel reader logic board,  or the reel reader logic board is defective, or wiring from the first reader to the 2nd & 3rd.  have no idea if the dip switch settings would effect anything.

Hope this helps   

Jim       

[litterbox99]

This is true, I just went through the same thing last week.

I usually work on 50v readers, the bulbs are lit all the time, on
all cards. And you can see them !

With the 5v IR readers, they only emit IR (on a per card basis)
as the CPU needs it.

They are turned on/off by a control bit and then handed off
to the next reel.

During normal play... coin up and spin

Reader 1 IR LED's are on, all others are off.
Once the first reel locks.  The IR LED's go off.

Reader 2 IR LED's are on, all others are off.
Once the 2nd reel locks.  The IR LED's go off.

Reader 3 IR LED's are on, all others are off.
Once the 3rd reel locks.  The IR LED's go off.

and so on, depending on reel count.

rinse and repeat...


When in Test #5, the CPU strobes each reader card
from left to right, about a 1/2 second long, continually
repeating until test is aborted.

It does this to read each reel and display it on the win meter.

You can use this strobe if your diagnosing IR issues. I tried
a few different digital cameras in the house until I found
one that could see the IR best.  

Todd

[pinballfixer]

Thanks Todd,  Well what you are explaining is how mine is working.  I have been using the old Radio Shack IR card...to bad they do not make them any more, smaller and easer to get into small places then using a digital camera. I see light in 1st Reel position in stand-by and when in test can see 2nd and 3rd reels light.

I have put in a working I0 Board and have the exact problem, checked the wire harness for damage and the plug pins are clean  so I am thinking the Real Reader Control Board.

My Manual does not show the schematic for a board with 2 plugs, any body have a picture they can post here or email me one.

[pinballfixer]

YEA GOT IT GOING

The first thing I did to this was lube and grease the Mech but after reading other posts on the same type problem I went back in again and lubed the heck out of everything and worked it in, then done it again, and now it is working...guess the reels were either not spinning fast enough or not stopping fast enough to satisfy the MPU.

Just goes to show how easy it is to over think a problem.

Thanks everyone for all your help.

[Amachanic]

YEA GOT IT GOING

The first thing I did to this was lube and grease the Mech but after reading other posts on the same type problem I went back in again and lubed the heck out of everything and worked it in, then done it again, and now it is working...guess the reels were either not spinning fast enough or not stopping fast enough to satisfy the MPU.

Just goes to show how easy it is to over think a problem.

Thanks everyone for all your help.

That's one of the common problems with the older Bally E-Series machines I've found. The reels spin slow and all the pivot point under the reels dry out and won't move. Once cleaned and oiled many of the machines problems  go away .. Glad you got it working..

Gary

[dhellis]

I know that you have your machine fixed    but thought I would post the schematic for you anyway.