Bally 809 machine

[David B Fowler]

Just picked up this slot and had a stepper coil burnt up on the odds unit. I replace it along with a over rated blown fuse, and seem to get most of the bugs worked out. Its a bars & 7 game and when I get (1 coin) single bars, it most of the time pays right and the bell rings ..... and rings ... and rings, even when the hopper stops running and kicking out coins. The only way to stop the bell is to activate the coin switch. I looked thru the drawings I have and see no reference to the bell so I could check the related switches. I am sure I can track it down with my meter but I am betting you can take me right there. Also I replaced the burnt step up coil with a B 25-1100 which I know is not an exact match for the machine (B 25-925 i think) but the question is, I am having either the relay or the stepper coil hanging up and growling going from the 2nd to the 5th coin, Sometimes it stops but the odds relay was stuck when I got it, which with being over fused answers the burnt coil. I have cleaned the 50V switches that go to the stepper coil but will the wrong rated coil cause the hanging or do I have another issue I need to check? I have ordered the correct coil for it and will get it tomorrow. From time to time I do get a runover payout and notice the stepper coil not always working..... could be a beau plug issue, it has a lot of play in the holder or related to the bell or hell, I will find it eventually. Main issue is to get the bell to act right. I dont want to disable it.
Dave F

This above is my last post, which I really didnt post in the right area but..... since posting this, I have the stepper coil working and replaced it with the proper coil. I still have the bell issue. Also there is a gear thats on the hopper motor that drives along with the hopper, and that lifts a single switch. This was disabled I think on purpose so I set the gap right so it will energize when the hopper turns. Is this what triggers the chime box for a jackpot? I set it right and now I see really bluie sparks and took out the 50V circuit fuse. I disabled it again until I have more knowledge of this switch and purpose. I also get from time to time, my coin micro switch must arc inside and the switch gets hung up. I have to tap it with a screwdriver handle and it lets go. Is this from a leaf switch that should break before making contact with another switch, that is still contacting when it makes the initial contact with the other leaf switch? I hope I have described the problems correctly. i am looking at wiring diagrams to find the circuit for the lamps like coin accepted, insert coin and winner paid lamps but dont see them in the stuff that I have. ny idea where to find the diagram and switch location?
Dave F

[CVslots]

Where's Old Reno when you need him?!?! He will see your post and chime in when he has a chance I'm sure. 

[OldReno]

Hi Dave, sounds like a fun project.
Since you're familiar with pins, you know about coils, switches, relays etc., and it sounds like you have already done a once-over to check things out.
Where to start???
See if when your bell is ringing on a pay, when you pull down on one of the reels that it stops the bell from ringing.  You might have a jackpot relay or bars match relay of some kind that is energizing.  If so, see if you can locate it. Probably in top unit or next to 3rd reel board.  Also, just for giggles try turning the jackpot reset key to see if that does anything, but I doubt it.
You might have a short in the machine, and that could cause many problems.  Read this post on shorts -- http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=17559.0
Even tho' it's incomplete, it's a place to start, and may give you some help. 
If I have a machine with multiple bogies, I like to find all the shorts first, and sometimes doing that will fix the problems.  But not always....
AFA your coin in switch, it's a two position switch, downstroke and upstroke, and the circuits SHOULD be isolated from one another.  However, if you have other switches out of adjustment, that might cause you problems.  You might want to eventually replace it if it keeps giving problems.
If I could find an 809 schematic that would be wonderful, since it's the one I'm most familiar with. Anybody got one extra???
Also, that gear on the hopper motor may be for a chime or gong, however since it does blow the fuse, good on you for opening it up.  Sounds like something to get back to after you fix the other problems.
Great post.

[David B Fowler]

Hopper stops after correct payout, I press the button on the JP reset switch ... still ringing but when I release a wheel from the payout line to a blank spot, the bell will stop. Also triggering the coin switch will also stop the bell. I do feel that the switch on the back of the hopper goes to the chime box. I will unsolder the coil wire and trace it with my meter to relays and also beau plug to find the pin for that circuit. Hopefully I can trace it down and find the short. Keep on plugginjg away.... It is a challenge. Why is there no standard wiring diagram for the controlled lights on the front? When I get it figured out,... there will be.
Dave

[OldReno]

Nice work so far.
The front lights don't take a lot of circuitry.  The winner paid light should be controlled by a minimum of 2 switches, both of them on the hopper.  One is usually through a N.O. payout latching pawl (on back of hopper board), and the other should be through a normally closed set of switches on the payout relay.  this is so the light does not come on when the hopper is in the reset, and also so that it does not come on during a payout.
The insert coin and coin accepted light wires should be found on your coin relay stack (left back side of reel mech), and the insert coin light also should go up to one side of your odds disc on the top unit.
To trace your wiring, remember if you look at the wire side of your male plugs, the female side should generally be the same color wire.  No need to pull your female plugs to look at them, since you know they (should) match, you can use VOM.   Bally tried not to confuse folks by switching wire colors in the middle of the stream.
Say..., you're getting pretty fancy at this repair and diagnosis stuff! Right on.
AFA your bell, see if you can find a relay that turns off when you pull down the reel on a pay.  It may be in top unit, so drop down your light panel so you can see what's going on up there when you do that.  remove 4 screws and light panel should drop down.
Also note that your chime box MAY be 120v ( I really don't know) so incorporate that into your hunting down the circuit.  If it has a solid orange wire going to one side I would guess then, that it is 50V.  And of course I know you know not to hold on to cabinet with one hand while you're poking around with your other hand on bare wires.
And finally, just for kicks, when you're on a pay, and the bell is still ringing, reach in and step your hopper step up coil one more step just to verify that it still rings with an extra step.  Couldn't hurt to check that, but probably meaningless.

[David B Fowler]

Well.... I might need to stay focused on one issue at a time but the bell has been stepped back a few. I have traced the wires from the chime box using color codes and continuity tests. it seems to go from the coil to the hopper payout counter unit (switch is activated by the stepper coil) and from there I have a connection at the bottom of the wiper board at  the CO soldier connection, also to the single switch off the gear from the hopper motor. I was thinking ( while I slept..... lousy dreams) that the coil could be shorted inside. I pulled it today but dont know the vale to ohm it out at. I am getting a .9 but not sure what it should be. It is a striker coil or chime coil and it reads 29-0-21 on the paper. I do see where the paper has gotten hot and see these lines from the wires wrapped inside. Normally a pinball coil would have a plastic sleeve and if it was bad... it would melt down. The chime coil has a metal sleeve so here I am. I will check with Foxsslots to see if he has a coil that will work. It is a quick pulse to the coil so I think I can get one close enough to work. Measuring the size will be important so it will fit the mount. Here are the pics I took....I can only post 2 pics so I will add a response

Dave

[David B Fowler]

Pics of switch locations for jackpot chime.

[OldReno]

Not sure what ohm value should be either.  What scale did you get .9 on?
Try hitting it with your 50V jumpers to see if it's shorted.
Yes, I remember those old plastic inserts, and how they would melt down. Ha!  And I have left my melted fingerprints on a few coils that were hotter than I thought....
Nice Pics, by the way, and you seem to have a good beside manner, doctor.

[rdaniel]

Question for Old Reno or any other viewers: In the photo above of the payout counter unit,  what is the purpose of the switch on the right side of the unit with the red circle?

Thanks R Daniel

[OldReno]

I believe those are your arc switches.  There's a post on them somewhere here.  I always believed they were designed to take the collapsing energy from your coils at the end of a pay, and protect your payboard to keep it from arcing, and putting those little half moons in them.  However, if you find and read that post, OPBell has a better explanation.
AFAIK, if they open too soon, you may pit your payboard.  But if your board looks ok, they're probably ok.

[David B Fowler]

I have notice that above my 3 fuse holders, the rating for the fuses are listed. The problem I see is that in the wiring diagrams I have, it shows the 50\V circuit coming from the transformer having a 8 Amp fuse. The tag in the machine says 3 Amp. Whasssup with that????

   Dave F

[OldReno]

I don't think a 3A would hold, esp. on a machine doing multiple coin payouts.  Bad tag, bad....
8A for most any circuit would seem to be about my limit, with exceptions.
Of course, putting in a 3A will certainly not hurt the machine, just drive up your cost on fuses.
But I always prefer to underfuse rather than overfuse a circuit.  Safer and less chance of fire.
Fire bad.

[David B Fowler]

I agree. Since it was marked and was blowing a fuse, I did go to a 4A fuse, even tho the manual shows 8A. But since I disabled the switch and diabled the chime coil, havnt blown a fuse. So I think I will replace the chime coil when it arrives and test it and then go to the 8A fuse then. Thanks .... found a bad lamp socket too but still have to trace down the circuit when I get the new bulbs and sockets in place.

I am having gastric bypass surgery on the 29th and hope to have it up and running before then. That way while I spend a few days in the hospital, I wont have the slot machine renting space in my head.
 

Thanks for helping again.
Dave F

[OldReno]

Wish you the best on your surgery.  Take care of yourself.

[David B Fowler]

That I will do. 1000 cal diet starts Monday .... boy oh boy I just cant wait.
I got some of the bulbs in and I put UV light above the reels. The reels are on black background and the bars were greenish and yello. Lights up good with it. Did they make a black light machine? I will tackle the controlled lamps when I get the new sockets and install them.
Thanks again
Dave

[David B Fowler]

I hate this diet ..... hungry all the time but it will immediately change after the surgery.

Now ... back to the slot. I now have all the lights working correctly due to a bad lamp socket and a lot of oxidation plus something else coating the beau plugs on the hopper. Used a 3M green pad with contact cleaner and now they work. Still cant get the bell to stop after the hopper does compete the payout. Any ideas where to look? I am going to start at the bell and trace back..... thru the connectors and onto the switches. I do like the quest, but not as much as the solving of the problem.
Thanks in advance for the help everyone.
OldReno ... you know I really appreciate the help too.

Dave  
 
aka TheFatman ..... but not for long.

[brettno1]

I had the same problem you have with the bell that wouldn't stop ringing.  The only difference is that it would stop when I pulled the handle.  (I think it's the coin switch that stops it in your case).  It turned out to be a holding circuit that was the problem and Old Reno showed me how to fix it.  Here's the link to the thread that describes the problem and how Old Reno said to fix it.  http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=21585.msg174280#msg174280      Hope it helps.   

[David B Fowler]

 Thanks ... I will look into it when I finished work tonight. I did a good bit of troubleshooting and tracing last night. Dropping a coin will stop the bell. It also is tied to the relay at the rear handle side of the reel mech. I think its the jackpot relay. It stays down after the correct coin is payed out until I drop a coin, or trigger the handle relay to drop. That breaks the connection holding the relay on the back of the reel mech that stays energized. Now if I could figure out how to get that relay to release when the payout is complete, I will be ok. I will look into the info you sent me and thanks to you and Reno as well.

Dave   

[mark the spark]

just a quick read up on an 809 i quote
"the jackpot lockup relay switches are normally closed until an attendant paid jackpot is achieved one of the switches then opens to prevent any further coining or play until an attendant pays the
jackpot
the attendant then energises the coin lockout coil by manually keying the jackpot release switch and the jackpot is played off the machine by depositing a coin and pulling the handle"

[David B Fowler]

This machine is a 5 coil single pay line Any Bar ... 5 Bar ... and 7's machine. It handles all jackpots from the machine so I think with the multiplier reels up top, the jackpot relay energizes for all payouts and resets with a coin inserted. I am not sure.... but with yalls help I think I will get it running. All is ok with it except the bell. I just dont want to take the bell out of circuit, I like it when it rings and stops when it should.
Dave

[OldReno]

Well, it's a good one.

[OldReno]

When either one of the two kinds of jackpots hits, its relay opens that switch (one in series to the other JPLU relay), and kills power to the lockout coil.  As MarkSpark said, you re-energize it on a parallel circuit via the key switch. Or open door and hit coin in switch.  we used to give them a free play off if we were in a good mood, and they were nice customers.  For the nasty ones, we said, we cannot pay you until you play it off....

[David B Fowler]

I like that.... the machine has the multiplier coils and wheels (4 of them) and every payout seems to trigger the relay, even 1 coin paying out 20 coins. This also has a chime in it which works at the same time as the bell. It stops the chime when the hopper stops running at the end of the payout.Thinking this should only have the chime and not both..... I am clueless unless I can see another one of these to compare.... or get one of the pro's advice further. I have only worked on 3 Bally EM's and got all the easy problems worked out but this bell is driving me nuts.
PS .... going to pick up # 4 EM on Saturday   ..... I just hope it doesnt have a bell.

Thanks yall  
Dave

[OldReno]

It would be called a no-bell prize.  Will check your post later, stuff to do right now.
There is also a pull-it-sir prize...

[David B Fowler]

Thats a good one.

 

Dave