How much would this wms go for?

[staz]

i really like this kiss wms slot.... how much would this machine go for?

[BR549 Auto Sales]

That's one bad ass machine, wished I owned one myself, I had a Kiss pinball machine at one time, always been a fan!

[knagl]

It'll never be available for the home market. Enjoy it in the casino while it lasts.

[uniman]

The days where casinos purchased slot machines, kept them for a few years or more and then unloaded them are almost over.   
Most machines now are leased or on some sort of profit sharing program.

[Bettor Slots]

The days where casinos purchased slot machines, kept them for a few years or more and then unloaded them are almost over.  
Most machines now are leased or on some sort of profit sharing program.

Uni...this is a VERY correct statement.  We are seeing a dramatic change this year in the casino bid lists with regards to machine type, quantities, and the amount companies are willing to pay for a load of machines, i.e., paying significantly more.  In some cases I have seen winning bids as much as twice the cost I have seen in past years.  I am predicting in the near future a dramatic change in the market.  This would include price increases and wholesalers less willing to sell parts complete and instead focusing on retail sales.  Enjoy the cheap prices while you can guys...it's coming.

[BR549 Auto Sales]

will this effect S2000, Reel Touch and I Game prices?

[Bettor Slots]

Historically, I don't care if we are talking about oil, slots, or corn, prices of things are always controlled by supply and demand.  Will demand continue on the machine types you mention?  Will supply be reduced?  My opinion is that S2000s have hit bottom and I would not expect them to reduce any further.  There are enough of them out there now that there may be enough supply of them already, however resales of them will be coming from homeowners wanting a change rather than coming from dealers.  Price on them with desired titles will increase slightly.  I expect IGames will still be readily available however I do not expect the prices on them to decrease more than a couple hundred dollars over the next couple of years.  Reel Touches are just going to be gone and a non-issue.

As proof of what we are talking about here...

I regularly support 4 other dealers that buy S2000s from me in large quantities of typically around 20 machines.  A request from one a few months back of 25 machines took  me two months to fill the order and pricing increased $50 a machine because of how and where they had to come from.  Another better example is that I was contacted a couple weeks ago by another dealer I had never met before.  They were "desperate for 25 machines" as the other two suppliers they normally worked with "had none to offer and no immediate prospects".  I ended giving this dealer 14 machines only instead of the requested 25 as not to diminish my own retail stock too much ...and at this point and time I consider what I did offer a favor.

My feeling is that supply from the larger wholesalers may remain fair for the next year but will begin to diminish.  Local options for some will become fewer and fewer.  You will have to resource possibly from further distances and then of course your cost of freight increases.  At that point you make the decision to either work for less or charge more.

[tkrozleski]

The Indian casino's in Northern Michigan were just installing these new "Kiss" machines in April.

[tkrozleski]

Being they are leased, are they eventually scrapped out?

Historically, I don't care if we are talking about oil, slots, or corn, prices of things are always controlled by supply and demand.  Will demand continue on the machine types you mention?  Will supply be reduced?  My opinion is that S2000s have hit bottom and I would not expect them to reduce any further.  There are enough of them out there now that there may be enough supply of them already, however resales of them will be coming from homeowners wanting a change rather than coming from dealers.  Price on them with desired titles will increase slightly.  I expect IGames will still be readily available however I do not expect the prices on them to decrease more than a couple hundred dollars over the next couple of years.  Reel Touches are just going to be gone and a non-issue.

As proof of what we are talking about here...

I regularly support 4 other dealers that buy S2000s from me in large quantities of typically around 20 machines.  A request from one a few months back of 25 machines took  me two months to fill the order and pricing increased $50 a machine because of how and where they had to come from.  Another better example is that I was contacted a couple weeks ago by another dealer I had never met before.  They were "desperate for 25 machines" as the other two suppliers they normally worked with "had none to offer and no immediate prospects".  I ended giving this dealer 14 machines only instead of the requested 25 as not to diminish my own retail stock too much ...and at this point and time I consider what I did offer a favor.

My feeling is that supply from the larger wholesalers may remain fair for the next year but will begin to diminish.  Local options for some will become fewer and fewer.  You will have to resource possibly from further distances and then of course your cost of freight increases.  At that point you make the decision to either work for less or charge more.

[tkrozleski]

And KISS is still making money too, with this theme !!

[slotsteve]

Historically, I don't care if we are talking about oil, slots, or corn, prices of things are always controlled by supply and demand.  Will demand continue on the machine types you mention?  Will supply be reduced?  My opinion is that S2000s have hit bottom and I would not expect them to reduce any further.  There are enough of them out there now that there may be enough supply of them already, however resales of them will be coming from homeowners wanting a change rather than coming from dealers.  Price on them with desired titles will increase slightly.  I expect IGames will still be readily available however I do not expect the prices on them to decrease more than a couple hundred dollars over the next couple of years.  Reel Touches are just going to be gone and a non-issue.

As proof of what we are talking about here...

I regularly support 4 other dealers that buy S2000s from me in large quantities of typically around 20 machines.  A request from one a few months back of 25 machines took  me two months to fill the order and pricing increased $50 a machine because of how and where they had to come from.  Another better example is that I was contacted a couple weeks ago by another dealer I had never met before.  They were "desperate for 25 machines" as the other two suppliers they normally worked with "had none to offer and no immediate prospects".  I ended giving this dealer 14 machines only instead of the requested 25 as not to diminish my own retail stock too much ...and at this point and time I consider what I did offer a favor.

My feeling is that supply from the larger wholesalers may remain fair for the next year but will begin to diminish.  Local options for some will become fewer and fewer.  You will have to resource possibly from further distances and them of course you cost to freight increases.  At that point you make the decision to either work for less or charge more.
[/quoteour suppliers also rasied our prices   a load on s2000 and shipping went up even with price of diesel down  50 cent a gal , now if i can only get wife to beleave someday there will be a stortage ,I,ll  be set

[Bettor Slots]

tkroz....off lease machines are very new machines...typically only 2 or 3 years old.  As a result they are very expensive and out of reach for most.  Typically they are being remarketed to overseas casinos.  I have heard some reports also where the manufacture is requiring certain quantities of them to be destroyed ...this is a measure they take to control a machines value.

Steve...that's just proof to the pudding what you are finding also.  And what happens when diesel goes up again?  And what happens when your supplier takes in a load of 200 machines and only 20 of them are S2000s where as a year ago it would have been more like 120?  Your supplier still has overseas demand for S2000s and IGames...they are going to support their bread and butter before supporting you or I and definitely before letting a few slip through the cracks to the homeuser.

[staz]

i think the avp's are gonna hpld there value a lot longer in the years to come...... imagine owning a avp wof right now that machine could easily bring 10k on the table ......