Touch screen swap

[SilverFerret]

I may be swapping a touch screen in the near future and have read some of the other TS related posts and don't quite understand how the TS is held to the monitor.
I see it's held with double sided tape, but how much, the entire surface, just the edges, could someone elaborate on what this means?
Thanks, Jim

[Buzz]

Jim  All my experience is with Ceronix monitors, and with them it's not as easy as it sounds. Ceronix used two methods that I know about, one method was double sided tape, the other way was some type of epoxy.

The epoxy method, forget trying to get the touch screen off. The whole under side of the touch screen is coated with this stuff and it's almost as hard as a rock. To determen if yours has epoxy cut the tape that's around the outside of the touch screen and with something thin and sharp ( I use a hacksaw blade ) cut between the touch screen ant the picture tube. It won't take you long figure to out which method they used on that monitor.

The tape method was one strip of tape all way around the inside edge, tape is somewhere around 3/4 to a inch wide. ( I never measured one) Now this must have been the best tape money could buy. When you start trying to cut this stuff your going to have a bitch of a time. This tape is real soft and doesn't cut for beans. I did come up with the conclusion that if you would put the monitor in a freezer  and then try cutting cold tape would be the best way. Oh I'm sure someone is going to tell you to use dental floss, and I'm also sure that's the same guy that tells small boys that if they masterbate their going to get warts on the palms of their hands.

Joey tells me to just cut the outside tape and set the monitor outside in the Bullhead heat and in a couple of days the touch screen will just fall off.  Sometimes I think Joey did drugs as a teenager but then again he does live in a oven. Me I've had 100% success rate getting a touch screen off, I've never got one off without breaking the damn thing. Score is like 0 for 10 !!

[SilverFerret]

Thanks Buzz... I think...
All kidding aside, I'm wondering what my issue is exactly.
My touch screen calibration goes off quite regularly and sometimes it takes many attempts to get it close. There is an area in the middle that never really works well. There is a scratch on the TS but after reading a previous NLG posting, just a small scratch may not be the issue.
Sometimes when trying to calibrate the TS, the calibration dots never show up or don't disappear after being touched.
Does this sound like a controller issue or TS or both?
Thanks, Jim

[Buzz]

Jim  All I have are have had are Ceronix, if that's what you have I can send you a controller to try.

If you could find some kind of liquid that would eat up the tape holding the touch screen on, that might work I'm thinking along the lines of Aceton or maybe MEK might work.

[SilverFerret]

I'll check out which monitor I have when I get home.
Thanks for the offer, Jim

[ROCKET]

I'll check out which monitor I have when I get home.
Thanks for the offer, Jim

It is the model of touch screen you need to find out not the monitor . then go from there
"touch screen" overlays can be put on "any" type of monitor/display etc  of the  CRT OR LCD type .
most common used are 3M micro touch orange wire is 12 volt dc  "ELO" touch screens the better of the two run a yellow wire to controller uses 5 volt DC
the 3m micro touch common controller is tan in color with tiny green light on top that will dim or go out when touching the T/S .

The "ELO" is a metal/tin box approx same size as the 3m controller which is thesize of a pack of cigarettes   on both 3M & ELO T/S controllers -

Gaming  equipment as in IGT -BALLY ETC that use a variety of CRT MONITORS AKA CATHODE RAY TUBE DESIGN -& FLAT SCREEN L.C.D  design  use a green colored board that is the controller for touch screen approx size 4 inches X 4 inches give or take ---will have just a set of 4--5 wires with a black molex plug  connector .

IT DOES NOT MATTER IF THE DISPLAY IS  CERONIX -TATUNG -ORION -HITACHI -RCA-SONY-SAMSUNG -LG - ETC ETC
ITS THE TOUCH SCREEN MAKER YOU NEED TO LOOK FOR TO DETERMINE WHAT YOU NEED ?
IF YOU NEED ANYTHING AT ALL . 

last method of attachment is a "ethernet" plug going from touch screen to controller

hope this clears up any confusion ??

[ROCKET]

I may be swapping a touch screen in the near future and have read some of the other TS related posts and don't quite understand how the TS is held to the monitor.
I see it's held with double sided tape, but how much, the entire surface, just the edges, could someone elaborate on what this means?
Thanks, Jim

as to your question to mounting the touch screen . the easy way after its clean with isopropyl alcohol both display and touch screen .dont waste the 50.00 bucks they want for a kit on ebay .
just buy the "red" colored indoor /outdoor double sided 3M tape . clean surface cut enough to make 4 strips and total coverage is recomemended .. although I know  company's that just used 4--- 2"-inch strips on each corner .. this is a very well known company still around today . although it works fine if any dust falls between t/s and LCD OR CRT its stuck between and only compressed air can blow it out .
so total coverage is recomended by most company's then a high quality high temp black tape with imbedded cloth if possible to wrap the outside . to protect it from my previous part of this post of dust getting between the two .
the savings the company did on millions of machines was most likely quite large by just putting 4 corners of double sided tape . but in long run without the black tape it always had the threat of getting dust between the two . 

ALSO NOTE THE POSITION OF THE CONTROLLER WIRES WHEN REMOVING THE OLD AND REPLACING THE NEW MARK THE CHASSIS FRAME WITH A MAGIC MARKER WHERE THE WIRES ARE EXITING THE T/S .
IF NOT SURE DO AS I MENTIONED PUT 4 --2-INCH STRIPS ON EACH CORNER OF NEW T/S  AND TEST OUT THE SCREEN TO SEE IF IT IS IN UPRIGHT POSITION . BEFORE YOU MOUNT IT HOPEFULLY ONCE !

[SilverFerret]

It is a IGT controller now that you mention it. I did look at that and it's the size and shape you (Rocket) suggest and I believe on the edge it says IGT.
Does the issue I mentioned lead you to believe it is a controller issue or a TS issue or both?
What do you think?
Thanks, Jim

[ROCKET]

It is a IGT controller now that you mention it. I did look at that and it's the size and shape you (Rocket) suggest and I believe on the edge it says IGT.
Does the issue I mentioned lead you to believe it is a controller issue or a TS issue or both?
What do you think?
Thanks, Jim

I hate double typing . but in some cases in order to help one person you gotta do it .

if you have read the previous post i made to other  members recently  of the touch screen  not being secured on tightly ?? that's what it sounds to me .. along with poor grounds or both .

other quick things was machine moved recently to other room other flooring ??
were you setting touch points with hand on cabinet while setting ??
(this is a good practice to complete ground)

without going over all i typed out on  previous threads if you can dig up it applies to yours also ..


have you tried to lightly pull on corner of touch screen if it moves the adhesive is not holding it tight.
 if it  lifts off on any corner of touch screen etc machine on or off . it requires a complete R&R there is part of problem until reinstalled to check .

scratches I don't believe so if it was working previously one more tiny scratch among millions on touch screens is not going to kill it . as you most likely read a fired a BB through a screen and it still worked .
(not on purpose)it ended its path there lol
 have had spiderwebbed screens from unhappy customers who did not win smash a fist into it .. touch screen still works fine ..so scratches unless they disturbed the wires inside the glass -my opinion no . that scratches are not the problem

common problems are you are not grounded while setting touch points.

  hold on to frame of machine or gameking cabinet just not the screen while setting touch points .
many people cut the ground prong off the A/C cord that's a big NO NO ..

is the wall or floor AC OUTLET GROUNDED ??

are all inside cabinet grounds connected .. the factory did not put them there for looks!
was any work recently done inside machine to remove any grounds ??

all things to look for ?

was it moved recently ??

flooring under it change
your footware change ??

people laugh it all plays into the simple touch point settings ..

if your not grounded to earth and machine is not it will never calibrate etc

i think you read most of my other post regarding touch screen problems to reflect on.

 if not pm me and i can write up a complete test to perform and things to look for ..

if its a later model touch screen made of LEXAN those suck to calibrate at X'S  if you dont see wires coming off touch screen but a ribbon cable ?? its LEXAN  see if that has any rips or tears in it or plugged in ?
those style suck . but were made to replace the "real" glass models ..

hope this helps you out if not drop me a pm

Rocket

[SilverFerret]

It is a IGT controller now that you mention it. I did look at that and it's the size and shape you (Rocket) suggest and I believe on the edge it says IGT.
Does the issue I mentioned lead you to believe it is a controller issue or a TS issue or both?
What do you think?
Thanks, Jim

I hate double typing . but in some cases in order to help one person you gotta do it .

if you have read the previous post i made to other  members recently  of the touch screen  not being secured on tightly ?? that's what it sounds to me .. along with poor grounds or both .

other quick things was machine moved recently to other room other flooring ??
were you setting touch points with hand on cabinet while setting ??
(this is a good practice to complete ground)

without going over all i typed out on  previous threads if you can dig up it applies to yours also ..


have you tried to lightly pull on corner of touch screen if it moves the adhesive is not holding it tight.
 if it  lifts off on any corner of touch screen etc machine on or off . it requires a complete R&R there is part of problem until reinstalled to check .

scratches I don't believe so if it was working previously one more tiny scratch among millions on touch screens is not going to kill it . as you most likely read a fired a BB through a screen and it still worked .
(not on purpose)it ended its path there lol
 have had spiderwebbed screens from unhappy customers who did not win smash a fist into it .. touch screen still works fine ..so scratches unless they disturbed the wires inside the glass -my opinion no . that scratches are not the problem

common problems are you are not grounded while setting touch points.

  hold on to frame of machine or gameking cabinet just not the screen while setting touch points .
many people cut the ground prong off the A/C cord that's a big NO NO ..

is the wall or floor AC OUTLET GROUNDED ??

are all inside cabinet grounds connected .. the factory did not put them there for looks!
was any work recently done inside machine to remove any grounds ??

all things to look for ?

was it moved recently ??

flooring under it change
your footware change ??

people laugh it all plays into the simple touch point settings ..

if your not grounded to earth and machine is not it will never calibrate etc

i think you read most of my other post regarding touch screen problems to reflect on.

 if not pm me and i can write up a complete test to perform and things to look for ..

if its a later model touch screen made of LEXAN those suck to calibrate at X'S  if you dont see wires coming off touch screen but a ribbon cable ?? its LEXAN  see if that has any rips or tears in it or plugged in ?
those style suck . but were made to replace the "real" glass models ..

hope this helps you out if not drop me a pm

Rocket

I apologize if I'm asking a similar question. I did read your other post but some things are different.
In the center near the scratch, it never calibrates accurately. Also sometimes when going through the calibration, it doesn't even show the two dots that it says to touch to calibrate. Sometimes, even though my finger is firmly on pressed the TS, it doesn't register the touch during calibration.
I bought this from a pawn shop and the TS wasn't working when I bought it but when I got it home I did a TS calibration and as it turns out, it works but has issues.
As far as a ground, unfortunately it's in my garage on my work bench which is getting power through an extention cord from a wall socket.
I guess I'm wondering how often these issues are the controller vs the actual TS.
I'll check the things you suggest when I get home later tonight.
Thanks everybody for the help, Jim

[ROCKET]

OK now you gave me what i was looking for .. 
the part that it never has the dots come up to calibrate ?? tells me the screen is not attached tight at times .#1 problem
easy repair for that is do this (ITS A TEMP REPAIR ONLY ).. take the wife's hair dryer on low setting and heat up circumference of touch screen slowly or you will break the glass ..
lick your fingers and press firmly on T/S FROM CENTER & PRESS FIRMLY TO HOPE IT RE STICKS ITSELF ??

Now the garage plugs & off a extension cord  ?? come on lol 

MOVE THAT BABY RIGHT INTO THE KITCHEN tell the wife she can wait --you will also so you know .. 

I am giving you hard time but you should know better that the garage is neglected when built and who knows if AC PLUGS ARE GROUNDED PROPERLY ??

you saying you got it from pawn shop does not bother me at all .. they are not stupid at pawn shops .



 u got it to calibrate afterwards is great ..
the controller if it be 3m which it is ..
those get replaced more often when there is no problem with the one you have.
i think you will find if you get home peel off the black tape carefully
that sourounds the monitor touch screen 

then take and see if t/s  pulls off easy ?/ or moves etc if any wires are bare etc try to isolate them and re tape with even "white " hospital brand 1" wide cloth tape.
it sounds like it just needs to be removed cleaned and replaced . 
then recalibrate of course and look for any green wires that are grounds that may be missing .. even add a no.10 wire from chassis of monitor to a known ground ..

your not in bad shape from the sounds . everyone gets scared OH MY TOUCH SCREEN IS OUT .. WHEN ITS A SIMPLE GROUND .

[SilverFerret]

Yeah, I know... the garage... but I don't have a stand yet for it. If you've looked at the classifieds, you'd see I'm trying to find one that matches another I have. As soon as I come across something similar it's going inside.
As for the pawn shop... aside from the monitor, it seems to be a decent machine. $275 for an Igame I think is a good price.
Since I have you looking at my post and since you seem to be knowledgable about monitors, maybe you could give me an idea about this...
When I bought it, the monitor was extremely blurry and I just figured it would be $275 plus what a LCD would cost to make a decent priced Igame at about $800. When I got it home I adjusted the knobs on the back and it cleared up pretty good in the middle but get fuzzy as it reaches the edge. Kinda has an over lapped picture look towards the edge.
Is there any way to clear this up easily?
I'm all the way adjusted as far as it will go.
Thanks, Jim

[ROCKET]

 

I know nothing about touch screens or slots or arcade games or company's like IGT -BALLY -WILLIAMS -ETC .
so to count on my post being accurate . it always comes into question where i got my info on a article etc  :72-so if your a believer ?? that I have knowledge in this area as others disagree ?
 
 many of the non believers send me thank you notes daily for getting there machines running .

as far as the display on screen i would have to see it in a still picture or video .
but I do understand what you said lol

have you tried the chassis adjustment screws for horiz size ?
or any chassis adjustments ? concerning screen viewing ??

you never mentioned if it was a CRT OR LCD -I AM GUESSING CRT -TUBE MONITOR .
I would after a full warm up condition . which it will be operating at . make the display as small as possible .
you then may slowly widen it in all directions right before it has  overlapping views ..
other than adjusting horizontal and vertical size in simple terms
that's your best bet .plus solve the touch screen problem with my guidance below . I may save you alot of trouble and money .


depending on how far you want to spend ??? you may want to sit back and give this some thought ??
the initial investment ---any transport fees to your home? any time you spent cleaning it or getting a hopper or coin comparator ??
getting correct key chip etc to enable games -just any money spent after you acquired it goes into the equation etc
think of investing in a LCD /touch screen retro fit assembly --used or new but not from HAAP CONTROLS CO.
 

so extra money spent on  CRT touch screens or touch screen controllers that may have a monitor that is on the WAY OUT ??--
I personally like viewing CRT'S  it could be my age or growing up with tube sets etc I HAVE SOME TOUCH SCREEN GAMES THAT THE COLOR ---GRAPHICS -DEPTH --OVERALL LOOK AND APPEARANCE ALL LOOK BETTER IF VIEWED ON A CRT . THEN CERTAIN OTHER GAMES A LCD IS THE WAY TO GO .
some other games need the LCD FOR SIZE LIMITATIONS IN DESIGN  .

So give it some thought before you spend a pile of money and are not happy with the outcome .
do the simple test i wrote in other threads on the touch screen etc
take pictures of everything before you take it appart so you have a digital reference on reassembly
run into any trouble drop me a pm
glad to guide you through it .
Rocket
 

[Buzz]

Jim  Switch the main board with your other machine.  I think I told you the other day when this 100 Play messed up it was messing up the touch screen. Turned power off and back on and that fixed the touch screen.

[SilverFerret]

Rocket, my goal is to get an LCD as I did with my other machine. I'm just limping along with this one until I can save up the cost.
Figured if I can do a $25/$30 fix temporarely, I'd give it a try.
Already have make and model picked out.
Thanks, Jim

[SilverFerret]

Jim  Switch the main board with your other machine.  I think I told you the other day when this 100 Play messed up it was messing up the touch screen. Turned power off and back on and that fixed the touch screen.

Main board? Buzz, I'm not sure what you mean by that.
Thanks, Jim

[ROCKET]

Rocket, my goal is to get an LCD as I did with my other machine. I'm just limping along with this one until I can save up the cost.
Figured if I can do a $25/$30 fix temporarely, I'd give it a try.
Already have make and model picked out.
Thanks, Jim

just trying to let you see your options ..

[Buzz]

MPU  (3902)

[SilverFerret]

Oh... You mean the whole thing. Got it.
Won't get a chance to mess with it until at least Wednesday but I'll try.
Thanks, Jim

[SilverFerret]

Well, I swapped Touch Screens and it was relatively easy after all. Old one came off with ease and the new one fit like a charm.
Everything seems to be working correctly and much better than the previous one.
Going to watch it for a while and see if it goes out of wack. So far everything is hanging in there good.
Thanks everybody for the help. Jim