E2270 odds of hitting 777, does anyone know?

[TheRealMacGyver]

New guy here, hello.

I just bought this machine and have been playing it like crazy.  It is 3 wheel, 3 coin, and pays for any bar, 1,2,3 bars, and 777.  I asked the guy I bought it from if he ever hit 777, and he said no and also that he asked the guy he bought it from and he also never hit 777.  So, I thought it was probably just really high odds to ever hit.  Now, I brought this home Thursday and today is Monday.  I have no idea how many cycles I have ran it through, but I would say several hours each day.  Friday I hit 777 and today I hit 777.  This really has me concerned.  The payout on this machine is 90% and the 777 pays 600 quarters.  I thought I would just let friends play if they wanted and let them keep their winnings, but this has me worried. Anyone have any advise?

[TheRealMacGyver]

Here's a pic:

[tkrozleski]

My expierence, which is rather short (2 yrs +) compared to others , but I have learned, if you are going to let your friends play to keep the winnings, you will get burned if you let anyone else free play including yourself and you let others keep the winnings. Free play is getting it closer to the jackpot.

Also the dampner cylinder on the reel assembly will cause it to hit more often if the piston is not replaced. I noticed this on my machine.

I had to dedicate a machine to cash only playing for anyone, if is was to let anyone keep the winnings. Hard to do if you have only 1 or 2 machines.

Have fun!

[TheRealMacGyver]

Yeah, I was thinking that the only way it will work out is if we never play it and only let guests play since someone has to lose in order for someone to win!  The triple 7s just have me a bit worried.  That is $150 payout and if a someone hits that I am going to be sorry.  I just didn't think I would see the triple 7s twice in just 4 days.

[Neonkiss]

To calculate the actual mathematical odds of the machine is very simple.
You take the number of stops on each real to the third power (because you have three reels)
you take that number and divide it by the number of friends your going to let play the machine for real money.
Multiply that by the dollar amount that your legal attorney charges by the hour and then add that to the square root of neighbors that you've pissed off in the last 10 years.

This final number will be the number of years you will have to live before you break even on that 10% hold of a quarter machine.
 


Not sure what state your in, but I can guarantee they don't issue gaming license's in single family homes.


Oh, and if your married you need to do a little more math.
Now take the number of years and multiply it by the temper of your spouse biased on the Scoville scale.  
square that by the number of kids you have and then divide that by how much you have in your kids collage fund.
 

And there's you answer.
 

[TheRealMacGyver]

That's good stuff, thanks for the laugh.  My intention is not to make money, I just don't want to lose money!

I did some data collection and input 1,590 quarters IN and received 1,620 OUT.  So, I would be 30 quarters in the hole in that case.  Not huge, but I will add more data and see how it works out. 

It will be lots of fun just doing free play, I just thought it would be a little better the other way. I suppose I could look into hetting a lower percentage EPROM just to be safe.

The good news is that I did not hit triple 7s again!

[TheRealMacGyver]

[quote author=tkrozleski link=topic=25084.msg194808#msg194808 date=

Also the dampner cylinder on the reel assembly will cause it to hit more often if the piston is not replaced. I noticed this on my machine.
[/quote]

Btw, I am going to have to do some reading here to look into that cylinder.  Maybe that is an issue?

[ramegoom]

As far as I know, the cylinder is there to slightly delay the actuation of the spin switch so it can catch up to the reader pulse train. If the seal inside the cylinder isn't properly compressing the air, then potentially you can pull the handle too fast, causing a tilt.

The handle pull speed has no effect on the odds of winning, which is programmed into the EPROM tables. So I don't see how this could affect winning combination payouts.

Also, the winning combinations are determined BEFORE the reels stop, unlike the old mechanical machines. In other words, the reel will spin until it finds its pre-selected symbol, then stop. This is why the stopping of the reels *appears* random. So statistically, your 777 combination won't come up for a long long time again. Statistically.

I"m no expert on these, but I have been hacking the E2000 machines and their mechanical parts for a while and doing a lot of reading, and asking a lot of questions along the way. The EPROM M3 has a 6-digit part number, and the last two digits of that part number are what the payout odds are in percentage, i.e. 456184 would tell you that the payout odds are roughly 84% of pay-in - based on a seven year period, factoring in the average usage in a casino environment. So, that's how the casinos see the profitability of a given machine.

Maybe you should consider using tokens instead, and put a "house limit" on wins. They'd have to cash out at some point, and buy-in initially. That might work better, since most people don't carry a pocket full of quarters anyway. Your "bank cage" would be a little cash box full of bills.

[TheRealMacGyver]

Thanks Ramegoom.  I thought it was amazing the first time I hit 777 and just thought wow, guess I probably will never see that again!  But when it came up 3 days later again, it seemed extremely odd.  Guess it's just probably a fluke and I won't see it again.  Do you know how available an eprom for my machine is in other percentages?  I have a 90% and maybe it would be nice to get a lower one.  I appreciate your explanation of how the percentage is calculated over time.  That makes better sense than my couple hour test, which would have worked out to over 100% !!!!  Would the machine go to some default percentage if I removed the eprom altogether?

One more question if anyone can answer.  I checked the voltage of my battery on the circuit board with the machine plugged in.  I don't remember the exact reading, but it was something around 4.? Volts dc. So it seems to be okay.  My question is that if this battery dies completely, what effect will that have on the machine?

Thanks again.

[ramegoom]

Yeah, hitting 7's so closely is probably unusual but if your percentages are 90, I wouldn't be surprised. What are the EPROM ID numbers on your machine? Does it also have a P2 chip, or only a P1? Post the part numbers if you have them all intact.

I have a number of these machines and several various programs, so I might be able to help. Do you have the ability to read an EPROM and save it to a .bin file? That would be helpful. If you got some lower winning odds, it'd help the cause.


EDIT:
Also, a dead battery might affect the operation of the machine, especially if it's shorted. They're supposed to be 3.6v and you can use a cordless phone NIMH battery in place of the original NICAD battery.

[TheRealMacGyver]

This picture isn't the greatest, but it might give you what you are looking for.



I think I just have the P1 and not the P2 if I understand correctly.  Should be able to confirm by this pis:



I do not have any way of reading/writing to an eeprom.  May be able to get a friend to do it at work though.  I'll check.

[ramegoom]

Looks like your P1 chip part number is 540090? And the others, M1, M2 and M3, can't tell the part numbers. It should be something like E2270-049 on the chips. Are there any identifying part numbers on them?

I'm thinking a different P1 chip could drop the odds a bit. Let me know the other part numbers and I will check to see if I have anything that might work.

[TheRealMacGyver]

Would the m1, m2, and m3 be the ones above the eprom with the stickers on them? 

In thinking this over, I think I will let friends play one quarter only.  This way the worst case scenario is they hit for $50.  I can deal with that!  The whole purpose is just to have fun with a chance to win.  I am not going out soliciting people to come play, it is just another way for friends to have a little fun.  In the end, I don't care if I make money, I just don't want to lose my pants!  I have some friends coming Friday and I will let them play one quarter, their money, and see how it works out.  I figure I have just a bit over $200 worth of quarters in the machine, so someone hitting for $50. (Triple 7s) won't break the bank!  3 coins would be a payout of $150 and I would be kicking myself in the butt!  $50 I can handle if it happens. 

I will look for the other info and let you know.  Thanks again.

[ramegoom]

Would the m1, m2, and m3 be the ones above the eprom with the stickers on them? 

Yep those are the ones. Top is M1. If you look a the pc board, just to the right, chip number is printed on the board.

PS 1 quarter goes fast - maybe too fast.

[TheRealMacGyver]

I wasn't clear on that.  I meant they can play as much as they want, just one quarter at a time.  This way I can see how much I might lose!

I'll get those number up here soon.

[TheRealMacGyver]

Okay,
M1: 80
M2: 47
M3: 48

Those are just handwritten on the stickers.

P1: 540090 E2090-84

I have to figure out why the sound isn't working too.  Guess I'll start a new thread for that though.