PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness

[jay]

Well it took me almost all day but I finally got to go downstairs and play.....

I inserted the opto-coupler and the game did not work.

I am now able to do a light pen test in the setup menu and have it go from 0 to 1 when I press the light pen to the florescent in the belly door.
I have 3 light pens and 3 driver boards, all 3 of the boards work but only two of the pens.

I got the notion that perhaps I would try the second opto coupler with the higher forward voltage and see if that made a difference. It didn't.
I then tried pressing the light pen to the screen and again it went from a 0 to a 1, so I figured I was getting closer.
However when I press the light pen on the slot stand - it also goes from a 0 to a 1.

I would conculde  that it is picking up the mechanical closure of the pen and not the light.

I have one of the light pens soaking in some water to perhaps clean the optics. Who knows what they may have been exposed to in their service life

Suggestions welcome.

[knagl]

Is there more than one input test item for the pen (ie. one for the physical switch in the tip and one for whether or not it's seeing light)?

Was that test that you mentioned NOT changing from zero to one prior to the 6n137 chip being used?

[Mikalnm]

Hello Jay, Welcome Back.  I want to add my 2 cents worth.  The only test that I have found is for the switch on the end of the pen, nothing for any optical input.  On my machine, depressing the switch on the light pen, will toggle the 1 and 0 in self test both with and without the 6n137 chip in. 

Somewhere in my research I came across a keyboard type input device that mounts on the belly door of a PEP upright.  This bulky thing was used instead of the light pen to select the numbers.  When you set up the keno program you select between the keyboard or pen as input device.  Have you ever seen one of these keyboards?  I am curious if our machines would accept input from the keyboard.

[jay]

The setup screen gives you the choice between tablet and lightpen.
I have seen them pictured on dedicated keno machines. I agree they look big and bulky.
Never been up close to one.

I am not sure if my lightpen interface worked before the 6n chip was inserted.
However it has answered the question that the interface from the MPU back to the pen is working.... at least electrically.

This would lead me to believe that the problem is related to the 6N chip that we are using.

[Mikalnm]

Just a thought?  Any chance the keno program requires a certain Cap Prom for the light pen to read the screen location properly?  Maybe a jumper or switch on the monitor board?  Anything that may change the screen output to something the pen optics can read and plot?  I remember reading something about when a retrofit from poker to keno is attempted one should contact IGT.  What is the secret step??  I wonder if any of the monitor or video gun game gurus have any ideas for us?  ARG!  Also, Has anyone ever seen a keno game specific manual from IGT?

[TZtech]

Hi

I have  never seen or worked on these before. Have checked IGT and there is not much there either. What i did however notice is that the PE keno seems to come in a dual screen configuration. Have no idea how the PE board drives a second screen.  Let me know what SW you have and i can look  on the PSR what  CAP prom is recomended.

It does seem strange that there is no test for the actual light switch part of the circuit - You could however try and place the game in game mode and then press the pen against a strong light source (Ie engage mechanical switch) As there is no timing involved my guess is that it would pick a bunch of consecutive numbers (Uneducated wild idea but may as well try :>)

Regards
Ian

[StatFreak]

It would more likely produce an error. To the pen and software, the screen isn't lit up; it is dark with any given single point being lit for perhaps as little as 35 nanoseconds about once every 60^th of a second. (I'm playing a bit loose with these numbers and basing them on a computer monitor at 800x600 at 60Hz because I don't know the scan rates and resolution of the PE monitors, but the principle is the same.) The computer is expecting a very brief flash of light within those parameters and will be trying to determine the time between the pen pulse input and the beginning of the monitor's sweep cycle -- by looking at the horizontal and vertical counters on the video card -- to determine the pen's position on the screen. A continuous beam of light could not be translated into any position. If you could pulse the light within the expected windows of duration and rate that the program expects to see, then it might accept the input and mark spots according to the evaluated positions at each pulse.

Perhaps the pen's hardware could be tested by looking for a voltage change at the output of the pen's PCB when light is applied and removed from the pen.  Another issue could be that the pen will only respond to a narrow range of light frequency and/or intensity, but not necessarily.

[jay]

What there should be is a light pen calibration screen just like there is one for a touch screen. As images move to different locations if you mess with the symentry. I guess the logic here is that the keno spots are so big that your monitor would really need to be screwed if the spots were in signfigantly different locations.

What we do know is that we have a wiring harness that comes off of the metal can that presumeably interconnects back to the motherboard and MPU. This is connected up to a small lightpen driver board via 4 wires, there are several ics, caps and transistors on this, on the far side of the board is a 3 pin (2 wire) connection to the light pen and a fiber connector that loosely resembles a LC connector (albiet this predates the LC spec by 20+ years).

The fact that the light pen works at least mechanically (you press it down and it activates the mini switch inside of it) subsequently the 0 flips to a 1 on the self test screen you can draw from this that the wiring and driver board is ok. I have gone one step further in that I have 3 pens and 3 driver boards so its unlikely (but not improbable) that at least some of my gear ott to be good.

This then leads me to believe that either the 6N opticopupler chip is either not the generic ones that we have purchased.
I am going to explore some other possibilities. For instance I have the harness hanging out of the belly door connected to ths board.

Perhaps the driver board needs to be mechanically grounded ? I have also followed the dot on the chip (no knotch) and aligned it so that it is at the same end as the knotch in the IC holder. Could IGT have been as evil as to mount this contrary to spec ? I have not had any more time to play but will likely have some time Monday morning when the kids leave for school.

[StatFreak]

What there should be is a light pen calibration screen just like there is one for a touch screen. As images move to different locations if you mess with the symentry. I guess the logic here is that the keno spots are so big that your monitor would really need to be screwed if the spots were in signfigantly different locations.
...

I'm not sure that a pen would require any calibration. It shouldn't matter how you adjust the symmetry or other display controls because it's looking at the digital clock timing to determine where the electron gun was in the sweep cycle when the pen picked up the "hot" pixel it was pointing to. If a particular trigger point (like a button or a keno number) began at line x at pixel y, continued to the right for n pixels, and continued from the the same pixel y for n pixels for the next m lines, it wouldn't matter if the display positions, H or V size, etcetera were changed since the same pixel would always be drawn at the same "time" in the sweep cycle and the computer would know what the pen was "pointing" to.

That differs from a touchscreen because touchscreens work as a static overlay (IR optical, capacitive, or whatever) whose XY coordinates are physically fixed at the time of installation. They therefore need to be aligned with the image being displayed because they actually have nothing to do with the image; the computer has to have calibration references to determine what part of the video map was underneath the location that was touched.

[knagl]

A friend of mine has seen (and tossed) a bunch of the keno "keyboards" in his shop.  I'll see if he still has any.

[jay]

It would be interesting to see what chip he has in his PE+ boards and if he is aware of anything special to make the Keno run.

[Mikalnm]

Hello, the game EPROM has XK000011 printed on it 09/09/99.  It looks like the CAP has 1267 printed on it but it is very hard to read.  Thanks.

Hi

I have  never seen or worked on these before. Have checked IGT and there is not much there either. What i did however notice is that the PE keno seems to come in a dual screen configuration. Have no idea how the PE board drives a second screen.  Let me know what SW you have and i can look  on the PSR what  CAP prom is recomended.

It does seem strange that there is no test for the actual light switch part of the circuit - You could however try and place the game in game mode and then press the pen against a strong light source (Ie engage mechanical switch) As there is no timing involved my guess is that it would pick a bunch of consecutive numbers (Uneducated wild idea but may as well try :>)

Regards
Ian

[TZtech]

Hi

According to the PSR thats the correct CAPX.
CG2120 specified for the graphics EPROMS.

SET004 specified set chip.

Regards
Ian

[jay]

Its not the game or cap that I am interested in, but rather what is in U21.
The tech manual posted by Jim pointed to a 6n137.

We now have two different people having using the stock version of this chip with the same results.

[TZtech]

Hi

Parts lists says High Speed 6N137. No manufacturer specified but the high speed specification may be where your problem is. Will check tomorrow on my spare boards at work to see if any have this part.

Ian

[Stolistic]

Anyway you can verify that pins 7 and 8 (on U21) both have power when the machine is on?  Pin 7 is used to enable the output and will not pulse pin 6 unless it has power even if the pen is sending data.

[jay]

probably easier said than done as the MPU slides into the system. I am sure I can cobble something up.
What should the voltages be ?

[Stolistic]

What should the voltages be ?

non-zero! lol... Your spec sheet looks like it should be +5V (on both).

[knagl]

It would be interesting to see what chip he has in his PE+ boards and if he is aware of anything special to make the Keno run.

He's never had any of the light pen versions -- just the keyboard.  I did ask him a few weeks ago if he was aware of anything special that had to be done for the light pens, and he said he didn't know anything about them as he's never dealt with one.  Sorry.

[jay]

Well I have some semi-postitive news to report

I just played 4 games of Keno on my PE+ ....... WOO HOO.

How you might ask..... well I will never tell......and not just because I am a jerk, its because I don't know. UGGGH !!!!

One of my 3 boards has a small metal board on its back with 2 off sets that holds it in place.

On the top Right hand corner closest to the machine interface, on the bottom of the board is a etched ring.
This particular board has what appears to be a ground wire coming from it, and is screwed against the board where this etched ring is.

Anyways I had my belly door open as that is where I have the wiring harness running through and I set the board down in that space.
Given that it has a metal back plate on it i didn't think this would cause me any grief.

I had just switched light pens and wamo I played a game of Keno. I cleared the numbers, put another couple coins in, changed light pens and it played again, 2 more games .... cool.

I then picked up the board thinking that I was a genius and the problem all this time was that we were missing a simple ground.

I ran a ground wire from this lead to the machine. NO GO. I placed the board back into the same spot, no go. I wiggled, changed boards, loosened the offsets and tightened them.
I double checked that the ground wire I had was giving me a good chasis ground all over the machine with a multimeter.

Changed light pens, NO, changed boards, N

Ideas ...thoughts ?

[Mikalnm]

Wow, thats great news, we must be getting very close!!  Did you power down your machine when you changed pens ??

[stayouttadabunker]

I've been following this thread forever it seems...lol

Without looking at this board Jay, I'm thinking that some component is warming up then loses a contact...
then it starts arcing inside the solder joint giving intermittent results...
That happens to coin comparator boards a lot...old solder working loose? esp. at the connectors?
Put some pencil tip solder heat on those old header joints might get your board back in business?

[jay]

I would be all over that, but I have 3 boards and 3 pens.... so I don't suspect all are bad.
One of the pens is bad at least mechanically but all three boards flip 0/1 on the light pen test which we know is a mechanical test.

The boards look practically new, no cold solder joints etc......

[stayouttadabunker]

Then it's got something do with the ground somewhere I'd suspect...
man....these are the toughest fixes to find...argh!!!!
I'll bet you just about leaping outta your chair when you played the 4 games...would of liked to see that!

[Mikalnm]

Hello Jay,
What if any jumpers do you have on E1-E5.  And, I wanted to know if your machine was on or off when you did the Pen swap right before you were able to select numbers.  Thanks