SAS protocol / progressive question

[Iamprogram]

according to SAS protocol, SAS progressive not talk about (config) use which progresive controller?
howto decide progressive win occur? SAS host progressive controller? in-machine progressive controller?

thank you very much, my friends,waiting for your reply...

[StatFreak]

Hi Imaprogram. Since you sent me another copy of this post in a pm, I thought I should respond to the question, although it is not in my area of knowledge.

To be honest, I don't fully understand what you are asking, but I think that your question depends on what machine you're setting up and how you want the progressives to work. I know that some slots can have internal progressives in addition to linked progressives. so the two aren't necessarily exclusive. I would think that the decision of which type to use would be made by the head of your casino's slot department.

I also don't know much about the SAS protocol, and not many members here do, because SAS is only used in casinos and is a proprietary protocol that is expensive to purchase. If you work in a casino, have a contract with the slot manufacturer, and have paid for SAS, then IGT will provide you with the specifics of the protocol and how to set it up.

Perhaps one of our members will be better able to help you.


<ADD> You appear to work for a company that creates games. Your company should have full licenses for SAS 6.02 from IGT from what I read on your website.    BTW, you have a sharp looking line of products! 

Okay, I found this email address on IGT's site. Maybe it will be of help to you:  SASman@IGT.com
Here is their web page: https://www.igt.com/Content/base.asp?pid=26.300
IGT's general support email is: Support@IGT.com

[Iamprogram]

Thank you very much.
you are correct. I already read the specific document(IGT), but implementing SAS protocol is a great task because as far every game machine supplier get diff understanding from the Doc, and not full doc is considered as standard, some command depend on game machine implementing.
so it is better  if somebody understand SAS progressive deeply and implementing SAS protocol progressive section.....

anyway, thank you very much again

[StatFreak]

...
so it is better  if somebody understand SAS progressive deeply and implementing SAS protocol progressive section.....

anyway, thank you very much again

Unfortunately, I don't think that anyone here has that level of understanding about SAS. However, you might want to check back and see if anyone else replies to your question. I still think that contacting an IGT technical expert might be your best choice. Good luck with your development.
Those electronic gaming tables on your website are cool!

I noticed that you email is hidden. Would you be willing to post a link to your website (NOT your email) so that the other members can view it? I'll leave that up to you.

[jay]

With limited knowlege of SAS...... and only a cursory understanding of the Prorgressives as they interface into the IGT platform......

When a TOP award is hit, the CHAMII+ and/or CON2 has a DATA line that feeds back the progressive amount into the slot.
This allows it to be displayed on the LED sreens....
On my PE+ video poker the word JACKPOT is replaced with the progressive amount and is actively updated as other machines on the link network is played.

When a PROGESSIVE is won, SAS should be able to deterimen the amount. This makes the assumption that the progressive amount is being fed back into the slot.

I have an OLD CON1 which does not have the feature to send progressive information back to the SLOT unless I use a GATEWAY.

I think there is a function call that reports the paytable amounts .... this should be able to read what the current progressive amount is provided the slot is getting the information from the progressive.

[Iamprogram]

Thank you very much.

--->> When a TOP award is hit, the CHAMII+ and/or CON2 has a DATA line that feeds back the progressive amount into the slot.

what is DATA line? special channel? SAS protocol command channel?



---- > This allows it to be displayed on the LED sreens....
On my PE+ video poker the word JACKPOT is replaced with the progressive amount and is actively updated as other machines on the link network is played.


link network? we use COM port.... (that is Non-SAS progressive , diff from SAS progressive)


---->> When a PROGESSIVE is won, SAS should be able to deterimen the amount. This makes the assumption that the progressive amount is being fed back into the slot.

SAS should be able to deterimen the amount.??? you mean SAS Host(as Progressive controller) can do? even if be able to, howto feedback to Game machine through SAS command(which polling command)??

---->>I have an OLD CON1 which does not have the feature to send progressive information back to the SLOT unless I use a GATEWAY.

whether that means : SAS protocol not completely, SAS progressive said Host canbe controller? after progressive win,howto notify slot?

--->>>I think there is a function call that reports the paytable amounts .... this should be able to read what the current progressive amount is provided the slot is getting the information from the progressive.

 ????not understanding

[jay]

The Mikon progressive controller has 3 wires. Coin-in, Gnd and Data-in.
When a coin is put into the slot the Coin-In and Gnd momentarily short subsequently incrementing the value in the progressive controller.
The value from the progressive controller is then sent back to the slot using Data-in and Gnd.

This has absolutely nothing to do with SAS. This is just the method in which the progressive information (Value) is sent to the slot.
I was not aware that there were SAS based progressives. Most progressives that I have seen are platform specific.

I might be mistaken but SAS is normally used across platforms and even if the platforms are the same they would have different paytables etc which would mean the progressive would not pay out in a fair manner. This would make a SAS based progressive unfeasable even if technically possible.

Please note I am not a SAS developer nor do I have access to the same manuals that you have.

From what little I have read, Each machine is assigned a unique number. The Central system then makes a function call to Poll machine #5 (or whatever number is assigned).
The current accounting information, player tracking information, etc is then transmitted to the central system. I am not sure if there are unique function calls related to the progressive but this information should be in the accounting info. Again speaking only about my IGT S+ slot, and PE+ poker when I go into the accounting info I can see the progressive value.

What I am not too sure about is the player tracking system. When a player puts in his card I am not sure if this generates a event that triggers the central system or if it is buffered in the player tracking hardware. I am not sure if the player tracking system is perhaps a uinique SAS number different from the slot or if it is somehow more integrated. It seems information about these systems is pretty proprietary.

if you want to send me the manuals I will see what I can figure out...

[ChadStarr1]

I have installed a fair amount of SAS games on a couple of different systems what exactly are you looking for?  And what system are you connecting them to? 

[Iamprogram]

good, paltronics
                        SAS Protocol
slot machine    ----------------------------------------------->             Host


progressive Jackpot
Game(in-machine Progressive controller?)  ---------------------->        Host(Jackpot Progressive controller)   


the problem is : which side is real controller? if use Host side controller, then SAS protocol's 84(poll) willbe useless. and  howto tell slot machine how much win?
if use machine side controller, that means Host is not fully functional controller.

anyway, so much uncertain which is not described by SAS protocol. I think this is SAS protocol spec drawback.

any help info willbe appreciated.
Thank you very much.                                                       

[jay]

Regardless if it is standalone or linked progressive the value is input back to the machine.
With a link controller all machines have the same value.

When a linked progressive is won only 1 machine wins that amount and the current jackpot is reduced to the reset amount.

SAS only knows what the machine knows.

[Iamprogram]

---->Regardless if it is standalone or linked progressive the value is input back to the machine.
With a link controller all machines have the same value.

correct,this is Non-SAS Progressive work mode. Both Standalone and linked progressive are Non-SAS progressive.
machine know "progressive win" first, then SAS host know.
but if SAS progressive(Host act as progressive controller), that means SAS Host know win first,(SAS host progressive controller howto tell machine the win) whether means machine no need to know the win? if yes,how the player know he is winner?

thank you very much

[jay]

That configuration far exceeds my knowledge on the topic.....

On the S+ setup there is no option for a SAS progressive. Perhaps on the newer machines.
My options are Link or Standalone. Perhaps with some third party hardware the SAS controller could be seen as a link.
In that case the information would be pushed to the third party Controller which in turn would send it to the slot.

[Iamprogram]

thank you very much
anyway, any new idea about this, just post here

[TZtech]

Hi


S+ and PE + supports SAS progressive and cashless transaction with the right base SW (SP1213 for stepper and XP000153 for poker). These are IGT international bases not sure what the equivalent domestic base is.
Generally on a system progressive (As opposed to older systems like mikohn) you will have to set the machine for SAS progressive and specify for which levels you need it to lock up. If this is setup correctly on the EGM it should send the relevant event via SAS to the host system (unfortunately cant advise what this command would be) on a jackpot hit. I remember that there was a serial return feature on the PE plus which we used in the previous company i worked for which got the progressive value from the system.

I have worked on the following systems all of which provide progressive functionality via their system. GRIPS Crystal Web (Now part of Atronics) SIP (Systems in Progress from Austria) and ACE (South african)
www.sip.co.at
www.aces.co.za

Unfortunately members on this forums are not into developement and the difficulty in obtaining the SAS protocol makes experimenting with this almost impossible.
Your best bet would probably to try and get help from the developers from a systems company that would be willing to help.

Regards
Ian

[jay]

There is also the Delphi Slot Tech forum and you might be able to make contact with some people from the Gaming Floor (UK) Casino Operations Forum.

[Iamprogram]

Thank everyone very much.

[Max-Payn]

Hi guys.
Help with search protocol specification SAS 6.xx , day after day, looking in vain. I hope for your help

[stayouttadabunker]

Did you take a look at Delphi forums?
If not...I think IGT will let you have it for about 30 million dollars?

[AndyP]

I am about to add SAS protocol to our monitoring system, sounds like a fun journey!

BTW: SAS Protocol is free. My company paid nothing for it but we did have to sign a Non Disclosure Agreement to get it.

[Crowsen]

Max-Payn , what do you need to know about SAS protocall spec 6.0?<

[zarobhr]

just an update to this on how SAS Progressives Work

on a gaming machine you set the controller to SAS progressive, and Set a Progressive Group Number
configure for progressive levels. once this is done on your Host program you must sent a progressive poll to the machine with the progressive amounts for each level
ie lev 1 10000
lev 2 10000

if you want incrementing there are a couple ways to do it
if extendgame gaming info is turned on you can retrieve that info from general polls for credits played. you can also use poll meters and do the math on host side to calculate how much to add to the progressive. somehtings thing to remember is when using sas progressives is host is responsible for polling to get info on credits platey, incremented the progressive amounts, tracking max progressives, and resetting progressive back to starting amount when progressive is won, and sneding the progrssive poll at least every 5 secs so the machine will be updated(other wise machine will lock)

any questions feel free to ask