Super Continental 891-1 w/credit feature Help

[ricker]

Well I picked up a project and I must say, this may take awhile.  It lights up for a nice night light. Do schematics even exist for this model? I'm hoping so. I peeked behind the top glass(oh yea it's broken), and all I can say is YIKES! I know I am going to need some advice, Barry help and parts, and Vodka . 
I thought I would start by getting the reels a going. 2 out of 4 work, not bad, that's 50%. Reel 1 never spins, reel 2 spins 1 out of 10 times, 3 & 4 are good to go. All four reels work fine and index fine out of the machine, it's just when it goes home to the cabinet, it refuses to cooperate. It's as if the handle mech. doesn't trip it enough to have reel one and two index lever arms open far enough(or shaft to turn) to lock open before indexing begins. Help! 

[StatFreak]

WOW!!     You're a better man than I am ricker. That is the most complicated EM Bally ever made. I wanted one but didn't buy it -- even in working order -- because of all that wiring in there and my concerns about troubleshooting down the road. I did end up with a "Super Continental", just the Bally 5500 version of it.

At least you've got Op-Bell, Neonkiss, FOXSSLOTS1 and maybe one or two others to help.
It's too bad that OldReno is no longer a member.

[FOXSSLOTS1]

the trip lever on the right side of the mech needs to adjusted - will try to get a picture to show you what you need to do.
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[Neonkiss]

Send up some pictures.......

[ricker]

the trip lever on the right side of the mech needs to adjusted - will try to get a picture to show you what you need to do.

[/quote]

I have adjusted the trip lever a little and have set to specs. I will try to move towards the front of unit a little more to see if it works better. Thanks Barry.

[ricker]

Send up some pictures.......

I promise to post pics soon. Busy weekend for me.

[ricker]

Ok, here's some pics and the latest.

Thanks again Barry  . Reels are spinnin fine.   Even a 16th of an inch makes a big difference. So here's the latest. Machine has been modified, of sorts. The credit feature has been disabled. Hopper didn't go back to zero stop and tightened spring. Third photo(second post below) show's "insert coin" and "tilt". Does not coin up. Turning reset key energizes coin diverter and lights up right side "insert up to 6 coins". Turning key back restores to same as picture. Short, missing or mixed up wire?

Need to figure out how to clear "Tilt". Any pointers, friends? Once I get it going, I'll think about restoring credit feature as there is extra board in top unit just taped over and sitting loose. Machine was in Panama at some time(found coin and markings on side of machine). Looking for top glass if anyone sees one.

Richard

[ricker]

other pic

[FOXSSLOTS1]

there are 2 rows of switches to the right of the hopper - they are activated by a key - turning the key towards you makes the game coin only (no credit) - turning the key the other way (credit).  there may be a key on the same side near the handle - that one resets the credit meter.   The tilt light is supposed to go out after you play a coin.  this is a very complicated game (as if you don't already know that).  there usual problem with these machines are the multiplier unit which is usually the one to the right in the feature - only has one contact on the dial - I forget the wire codes think the top wire is a red/black - if this one is dirty - then you won't get any 2nd coin payouts.  Top glass for this and most of the older bally are difficult to find. I haven't seen one in years. lots of luck on that one.   I had over 500 of those panama machines at one time - they were all a mess - the mechs in panama had no spare parts - just alot of imagination - if a light socket broke - they would just solder the wires to the bulbs!!!  if a wiper blade wore out - they would just cut off the end of one that they didn't need and solder it to the broken one.  You will most likely find wires going places that make no sense - bad beuaplugs are just the beginning.  you are going to  learn alot about bally by the seat of your pants. 

[Op-Bell]

(Checking your profile to see if you're near enough to visit) - Boy, you are out in the middle of nowhere, Ricker. Are you near that derelict bar with the hot springs pool at 6 and 375? It's been a few years since I passed that way.

I have a little info on the 891-1, but unfortunately no schematic. I think the Tilt relay is top left in the top box - if you swing the feature unit down it's leftmost in the row nearest to you, next to the tilt/slam switch. You might be able to operate it by hand and see if the light goes out. It may also be connected through the hopper safety timer, which is at the back bottom left in the main cabinet. There's a sliding bar on the bottom of the cabinet to reset this, I can see it in the photo.

[ricker]

there are 2 rows of switches to the right of the hopper - they are activated by a key - turning the key towards you makes the game coin only (no credit) - turning the key the other way (credit).  there may be a key on the same side near the handle - that one resets the credit meter.   The tilt light is supposed to go out after you play a coin.  this is a very complicated game (as if you don't already know that).  there usual problem with these machines are the multiplier unit which is usually the one to the right in the feature - only has one contact on the dial - I forget the wire codes think the top wire is a red/black - if this one is dirty - then you won't get any 2nd coin payouts.  Top glass for this and most of the older bally are difficult to find. I haven't seen one in years. lots of luck on that one.   I had over 500 of those panama machines at one time - they were all a mess - the mechs in panama had no spare parts - just alot of imagination - if a light socket broke - they would just solder the wires to the bulbs!!!  if a wiper blade wore out - they would just cut off the end of one that they didn't need and solder it to the broken one.  You will most likely find wires going places that make no sense - bad beuaplugs are just the beginning.  you are going to  learn alot about bally by the seat of your pants. 

Thanks for more tips. I think my pants may wear out before I get this this one workin! lol

[ricker]

Here's the latest. I have decided to look for obvious electrical problems. There are a bunch. below is pics of the unit behind feature glass. Barry you are right that things were done to repair that are mind bogling. Although it seems that all is there, some problems exist. I have attached some pics. One obvious bad coil switch. it was held in position with a rubber band to keep from either opening or to keep closed, since bad. I think this is what Op-Bell was referring to as the tilt switch(K+). The credit meter's numbers are gone or worn off in places. I will trace all wires for continuity. This may take awhile.  Pic. D in lower post shows an extra contact board covered with masking tape, not sure of its purpose. Hope I didn't bite off more than I can chew, but looks like a challenge. 

Richard

[ricker]

more pics.

[Op-Bell]

Hope I didn't bite off more than I can chew, but looks like a challenge. 

Nah, you're a big boy - open wide and chew vigorously.

That coil switch - relay - is the "anti cheat" relay. Anti-cheats have a couple of functions, but one is usually to clear off any credits from the credit unit when the game powers up. That happens when the relay is dropped out. It pulls in when the credits are gone and stays pulled in forever after, resutling in it usually looking a bit hot and brown. It's not at all unusual to see the A-C relay tied down so that it can't reset the credits. Probably no problem there.
<edit> On second thoughts, I seem to remember the anti-cheat relay was on the next row. I'll look up that relay on the parts list when I get home and find out what it does.

The tilt switch is that arrangement of contacts with weights on them next to the anti-cheat relay. Give the board a smart slap and the weights will wobble and open the contacts, causing a tilt.

The credit counter is missing at least one coil - there should be one on either side, one to step up, one to step down. It can be replaced.
<edit> I can see from picture 4, both coils are missing.

The board wrapped in masking tape is part of a step-up unit that used to mount on the rails next to it. The whole of the mechanism is gone and just the contact board remains. It's probably something to do with credit play. It can be replaced.

[FOXSSLOTS1]

looks pretty clean for a Panama machine - lost track of what problems you were having - as I mentioned earlier - the usual problem is with multiple payouts (2 or more coins).  There is a coil/relay - the anticheat - has 3 leads vs the usual 2; that coil is always burnt out - and it is common to see some jury rig to keep it closed  - be it a wad of "coin wrapper paper" or an elastic band.  I have all the parts for this puppy including complete feature units, wire diagram - coils etc.  the feature (top glass) is impossible to find - I had over 20 of them NOS at one time - had to use them up on machines - consider yourself lucky as alot of those Panama machines were in SPANISH!  I would try to get this one running in cash mode first.  Lastly the motor at the back left - check that out - make sure it is not frozen - I forget if it is 50v or 110  - if the motor is frozen then alot of functions won't work.

[ricker]

Thanks Barry and OP-Bell. I'm limited on the Karma, lol. I am sure I will need parts Barry, and I sure could use a wiring diagram for this puppy. PM me as necessary. The timer is free, but I have yet to put power to to test. The tilt lite goes out by manually closing the switch I have listed in as "Bad and Fried" in the above photo's. Some of the other switches work and advance the step up and credit counter and others the odds follower unit. I agree that getting it to operate in coin mode first is the answer. The reset key only turns one way, to clear the larger wins(hand pay), so the credit feature has been gone for awhile. There are loose wires behind the hopper and the far left fuse holder is gone and just wired together. Fun, fun, fun

[scottie]

HI RICKER
YES THE WIREING DIAGRAMS DO EXIST FOR THE BALLY SUPER CONNENTIAL.....AND I THINK I STILL HAVE MY ORGINAL RIGHT FROM BALLY
ILL TAKE A LOOK FOR THEM IF YOUR INTERESTED.
I HAD A FEW OF THESE YEARS AGO,AND I REMEMBER THEM BEING A BUGGER TO WORK ON... TONS OF  WIRES TO TRACE
SCOTTIE

[ricker]

Thanks Scottie, I have a wiring diagram and I am busy tracing them now. I am making slow progress.

Richard

[ricker]

Things are moveing slowly, but I am getting closer.  Lights up of course and pays on winning combo's(kinda). Can't figure handle release switch wiring. If someone has an 891 and can look at order wires need to be. Here is pic of switch involved, located directly below handle release coil(coil tested ok). I have 4 wires remaining to connect. Red, orange, grey, and green w/yellow tracer. Any help appreciated.

Richard

[Op-Bell]

Look in the Bally 742A thread elsewhere in this section. I listed the handle release wiring there, from the coil all the way back to 50V, with wire colors from the manual. It may be slightly different for your Continental but it will be close.

[ricker]

Thanks Op-Bell.

Quote:

Handle release coil - I have several diagrams for this that don't agree. The concensus seems to be as follows, the precise order and wire colors may vary.

One side of the coil goes to 50V (orange). The other side goes as follows:

- White/blue wire to a contact near the coil that opens and cuts off the power when the release arm drops
- Black/yellow to a normally open contact on the coin relay, closed when the relay is operated
- Blue/white to the dashpot switch, closed when the handle is fully upright
- White/orange to a normally closed contact on the payout relay on the hopper, closed when not paying out
- Brown wire to the C1 switch, a vertical stack on the left hand side of the reel mech, closed when mech is at rest
- Gray/red to the A switch, a single vertical switch at the rear on the left hand side, closed when the mech is at rest
- Orange/green to the normally closed contact of the coin microswitch
- Yellow wire to 50V return

Quote:


Richard