Piggy Bankin boot issue

[CyberPeres]

Once upon a time I did a real bad thing and fried my cpu and i/o cards on my dotmation piggy bankin game. I have since repalced all the damaged hardware and now boot to a point, the reels position, I get the single bong, the display keys up with the piggy and everything, then it turns off the dotmation and I get a Hand (with no number) in the led displays. what setting to I need to clear to get rid of that error? I have used a clear chip when I put the new hardware together and can reach the menus just fine. It does this every time I boot.

[CVslots]

I think Buzz had (or has) a Big Bang Pig machine, maybe he can provide some guidance? While WMS is not our most popular platform here, there are quite a few members who have 550s and BBs.

You might try moving this to the WMS forum for a better response, but  none the less!

[dale]

Are you sure the code is Hand? Could it be Rand?

Rand is bad static ram.......

Neonkiss and tollguy are really good at these WMS...it is a 40X correct?

Dale

[Neonkiss]

Hand is a tilt code for the hopper.
It signifies a handpay. Did you hit a jackpot?
Turn the key on the side of the machine and it should clear.

[CyberPeres]

positive it's Hand with an "H".  I did think the same think thing though. I get through the boot sequence though then get the tilt code.

Are you sure the code is Hand? Could it be Rand?

Rand is bad static ram.......

Neonkiss and tollguy are really good at these WMS...it is a 40X correct?

Dale

[CyberPeres]

No, it happened after I fried the system and replaced the I/o and CPU card while I was diagnosing a power supply issue.  One of the things I noticed last night is when in the menu I was unable to use the spin reel button to change at least some settings.

Hand is a tilt code for the hopper.
It signifies a handpay. Did you hit a jackpot?
Turn the key on the side of the machine and it should clear.

[rickhunter]

When you fried it?  Did you have burnt traces?  Did you replace your backplane too?

[CyberPeres]

I did a dumb thing. I took the upper power supply board and tried to use it to diagnose a lower power issue. It burnt the I/O card so bad the Xlinx chip cracked wide open. I sent 12V down the 5V line. I did not change the backplane and I have not seen any errors indicating backplane issues, but if I  hear you guys right that's where my ram is right?

I do get through my post test with a bong and for a few seconds the game actually loads before it cuts off with the Hand tilt with no number of coins count like that error is supposed to show.

When you fried it?  Did you have burnt traces?  Did you replace your backplane too?

[rickhunter]

So what have you replaced?  Just the I/O card?  The ram is in the CPU board, if you put 12V down the 5V line, the CPU board would have been affected as well.  I would try and use a good known cpu board, the backplane is passive for the most part, but it does have an eeprom chip in it,  if you put 12 volts on a 5 volt line, you might have issues there too.  Your best bet is to replace the cpu board first to see if the error clears.

[CyberPeres]

Replaced the CPU board and the I/O card. CPU card did not take visible damage but was just as fried.  Sound and Game chips seem to be survivors of the event. I think it only torched the front end bus on the cpu board. I have not touched the backplane yet. I also wonder I have the right reset chip, but it seems to sequence as expected with no direct tilts at the clear process.

So what have you replaced?  Just the I/O card?  The ram is in the CPU board, if you put 12V down the 5V line, the CPU board would have been affected as well.  I would try and use a good known cpu board, the backplane is passive for the most part, but it does have an eeprom chip in it,  if you put 12 volts on a 5 volt line, you might have issues there too.  Your best bet is to replace the cpu board first to see if the error clears.

[CyberPeres]

If I could find some spare game chips to buy then I would, eeproms are notorious for long term bit rot and with what I put them through I would be a bit surprised if I did not at least shorten their lives. 

[CyberPeres]

I had a guy I was getting my parts through sell me what he called piggy bankin chips (UX2 and 3) but were big bang chips, very cool since I want to accumulate the parts for conversion anyway. He actually argued with me telling me that was the only 40x piggy bank game and he stopped taliking to me at all. Shame since I wanted the big bang chips anyway. I bet he had vid and sound chips to match. He acted like I was trying to swindle him, but I was willing to buy every piece needed to convert and pay for a spare set of of the original piggy bankin. His loss but made it much harder since parts are seemingly scarce.

Anyway, my thought was at time I had corruption in the game chips, although it seems to pass the checksum and actually boot the game before I get the tilt.

If I could find some spare game chips to buy then I would, eeproms are notorious for long term bit rot and with what I put them through I would be a bit surprised if I did not at least shorten their lives. 

[CyberPeres]

I did replace the CPU card as well, brought the game and sound chips over from the old board. I am sure the sound chips are good, pretty sure the game chips are. Usually boards like this have voltage regulation around the main logic. I did get a used replacement power board (lower). About a week after I got the machine The upper one died, I called the board maker and got a new one. For some reason I could not get a good new match on the lower one so I bought it used. I am starting to hear a power supply hiss and I get the drift it's not always stable, but I do get periods of stable power but I can't get by that odd tilt code after the machine boots.

So what have you replaced?  Just the I/O card?  The ram is in the CPU board, if you put 12V down the 5V line, the CPU board would have been affected as well.  I would try and use a good known cpu board, the backplane is passive for the most part, but it does have an eeprom chip in it,  if you put 12 volts on a 5 volt line, you might have issues there too.  Your best bet is to replace the cpu board first to see if the error clears.

[Neonkiss]

Can you post a picture of the new I/O board.
The 40X I/O and the 550 I/O look similar. I just wondering if he sold you a 550 I/O  

Let's make sure you have the correct parts first.

[CyberPeres]

Nice idea. I'll post that real soon. Thanks !

Can you post a picture of the new I/O board.
The 40X I/O and the 550 I/O look similar. I just wondering if he sold you a 550 I/O 

Let's make sure you have the correct parts first.

[CyberPeres]

here are some pics of the I/O card that I was sold to replace the one I burnt

[rickhunter]

That's the right slot I/O, 5 sets of reel drivers on the top right of the board (connectors on top).

[CyberPeres]

Thanks  for checking for me. I don't have a lot of slot experience behind me. I do have some electronics, a robotics and microcontroller background and I am a computer programmer by trade (BS in Computer Science).

Experimenting tonight I made careful note while I was stable going through the maint menu. all the sounds and tests seem to work, coin drop, all the sounds and music all work, reel tests, everything... But when I try to change a setting like speed (default med) I don't seem to be able to on pretty much every setting. I feel locked out in some manner.

the system only stays stable for few mintues. If am in the menu I start to get "brighter" than normal light flash patterns from the buttons, coin light, info lights etc. They feel like they are telling some kind of error, because normally they are static. If I am not in the menu it sounds like I go into incomplete boot resets in rapid succession. This feels like the power supply goes unstable but I am not sure, and wonder if the program chips are unstable and start generating program errors that force the system resets.

I just still know when I boot cold I get through the post and I see the game start (pig on screen and everything), then get the Hand Tilt. until the system goes unstable into reboot fits or if I'm in the menu system then I get the odd light flash patterns.

That's the right slot I/O, 5 sets of reel drivers on the top right of the board (connectors on top).

[Neonkiss]

From all indications stated so far, I'm leaning towards a bad I/O board.
I have had bad boards where functions like the key switch on the side don't work and others where you get bright lights or the DBV runs all the time.
Remember the I/O board is for Information Out. This handles all electrical signals to lamps, coils, reel stepper motors, ect...

[CyberPeres]

makes sense to me.... Now I have to find parts. an I/O card is on top of my list. I'd still like to start accumulating extra chips. Starting with the game and reset chips. EEProms are going to die. In fact I want to get the ability to make backups and master replacements. Right now I would just settle to be operational, I have been this way for more than a few years and have to hear the wife talk about the $2K paperweight in the living room.


Now the question is where is a good place to look for parts these days?

From all indications stated so far, I'm leaning towards a bad I/O board.
I have had bad boards where functions like the key switch on the side don't work and others where you get bright lights or the DBV runs all the time.
Remember the I/O board is for Information Out. This handles all electrical signals to lamps, coils, reel stepper motors, ect...

[rickhunter]

Raz410 has some slot I/O boards for a good price on his e-bay store.  I'd get at least a couple to have around, parts for these platforms are harder to get now.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161097439084?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

[CyberPeres]

Ok, this is where I am starting then. I picked one up. Even if it's not it then I have a spare. Now I wonder since the button interface seems to be on the backplane, if that might be my next target?

Raz410 has some slot I/O boards for a good price on his e-bay store.  I'd get at least a couple to have around, parts for these platforms are harder to get now.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161097439084?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

[CyberPeres]

I wish I saw this before I did my bad thing. Although I did this years before this was posted.

http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?action=printpage;topic=344.0

I wonder if I have to replace tbe meter board to run ?

I am guessing the author of this did not lose his backplane then....

[CyberPeres]

Interesting note: I noticed something here.... in the part number of the one I was sold, and the checking it against my burt one and the various manuals I have, there is a distinct difference.

the original part matches the number with one key difference. The end two digits are 03 on my original and 02 on the one I am trying to use. The one I just purchased will have the 03 like the original. Anyone think that might be an issue ?

here are some pics of the I/O card that I was sold to replace the one I burnt

[CyberPeres]

Talk about a small world. Got the board, you would not believe it ! I ordered yesterday ! rick, looking at the return address on the box the Raz410 lives like less than 5 miles from me.  I think I am more stable and the board is like 100x better shape than my other replacement, but I still am in the same boat. I still boot with the "Hand" tilt.

Looking at the link with the story of the person who did the very same thing, I might have to fix or replace the hard meter driver board. Briefly looking at the board I think it only has two ic's on it and some normal components, caps, resistors, diodes, etc. It looks to be a simple enough board if I can ID the chips I can figure it out.

I think I have two choices, figure out the board and "satisfy" the boot test by simulating the signal it needs (forgoing using the meter set), or replace the IC's as the most likely of the fried components, after doing diagnostics on the board eliminating easy component issues.

Even with knowing that the meter board is the most likely issue, I think I have it down to three possible things my issue could be yet. 1. meter board (maybe the tilt is some sort of messed up message for the word "hard") 2. I have the wrong reset chip and it's not setting the ram up correctly 3. my game proms are shot.

In the second and third case I am going to seek a another reset chip and a game prom set. eeproms are going to die eventually anyhow and I'd like to double my chances of lasting longer anyway.

addendum : I have pulled the meter board. One ic is a simple 339 quad comparator, and the other is a TPIC6259N addressable latch. The 339 can easily take the 12V that is was exposed to the latch cannot (5.5v max). All other components on the board are easily rated for the overvolt amt the board must have seen, so I think I have my answer. The frustrating part is I have at least a number of 339's inches from my feet while I am typing this. The latches  I fear I do not. I hardly think I'll get as fast response on it as I did on the I/O card.  I wish I had a tech sheet for this board, I'd love to bench test it.


Although not as overt as one would think, I spot evidence of a thermal event taking place in the latch chip, A small patch of dullness in the shape of what could be a heat pattern has marred the chip surface ever so slightly .

I have ordered the latch chip and 2 spares (In case I screw up, and in the event they prove useful in robotics), the chip swap should be a snap for me. I already swapped the reel's Schmitt triggers and that was cake. (I was wild guessing what I could have blown up when I started this effort years ago I needed to develop my skills before I approached it again not to mention the bruised ego of what I had done.)

Raz410 has some slot I/O boards for a good price on his e-bay store.  I'd get at least a couple to have around, parts for these platforms are harder to get now.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161097439084?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649