Piggy Bankin boot issue

[rickhunter]

I wonder if the meter bypass trick works on the 40x platform.  I know for the wms 3xx and 5xx you can bypass the meter by jumping a pair of pins.
  I will have to look at the 4xx backplane to see if the pinout is the same as the 5xx platform. If it is not, we can just move the wires around so that the same pins are jumpered.

http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=71.msg66457#msg66457

[knagl]

Congrats on your progress and troubleshooting, CyberPeres, and for sticking with this.  Hopefully the meter board is your issue and if so, your posts will help someone else in the future I'm sure.

[CyberPeres]

Thanks for looking !  The information might become quite useful, I'd love to get some kind of awareness of the pinout of that board.

I wonder if the meter bypass trick works on the 40x platform.  I know for the wms 3xx and 5xx you can bypass the meter by jumping a pair of pins.
  I will have to look at the 4xx backplane to see if the pinout is the same as the 5xx platform. If it is not, we can just move the wires around so that the same pins are jumpered.

http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=71.msg66457#msg66457

[CyberPeres]

Thanks for the cool words, I have been living with one of my greatest tech failures in my face for a long time now. It's like having your worst mistake in your living room in your face day after after day year after year just mocking you. As heavy as these thing are you just don't move them on a whim.  For the first time I think I have a chance. I am sticking it out this time and at the end should I get back online I'll post a clean approach with pics.

I just hope at least this much. The upper and lower power supplies are not the same DO NOT SWAP THEM ! If that can save one other machine then this has been at least something.

Congrats on your progress and troubleshooting, CyberPeres, and for sticking with this.  Hopefully the meter board is your issue and if so, your posts will help someone else in the future I'm sure.

[rickhunter]

Pinout appears to be the same, so I would try jumping 8 and 13, there are no voltages involved, so you are not going to fry anything.

[CyberPeres]

Thanks again, that means I can test before I get my chip delivered. Which side is pin 1 ? wait wait I see the pics , I see how that goes...

although its a single in line connector and only one row of pins on mine.... That's on the meter side, you might be talking the backplane side however. I'll check that when I get home tonight.

Pinout appears to be the same, so I would try jumping 8 and 13, there are no voltages involved, so you are not going to fry anything.

[rickhunter]

Yes, the plug would go into the motherboard, no sense on having the wire running to the meter board, more clutter.

[rokgpsman]

I think this was also covered in an older posting by Clay.

http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=1086.msg7749#msg7749

[CyberPeres]

Thanks, that's cool.

I think this was also covered in an older posting by Clay.

http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=1086.msg7749#msg7749

[rickhunter]

That confirms it then. I'm going to go make 3 of them for my machines then. Karma   for finding the old post.

[CyberPeres]

You might want me to test mine first. I am already in hot water...

That confirms it then. I'm going to go make 3 of them for my machines then. Karma  for finding the old post.

[CyberPeres]

OK, that worked.......  I actually got to play two games before the system went unstable again. starting cold I am completely stable for a few minutes and after it degrades reels act jerky I get odd light flashes etc... It deteriorates to the point I remember from my original power supply issue. it starts into cycles of system restarts. I hear a hiss also. That was a telltale sign when I lost the top power supply, which I was able to get new off the shelf from the board mfg.  I got a hiss a few hours before it went down, Same with the original lower power supply. I replaced that one with one I got from ebay so who knows how good it was and I just replaced the inner board not the whole unit.

With the pattern of malfunction I cannot rule out the backplane either. But this feels like power supply to me.

I have heard some of you guys use computer power supplies, is that easy or practical ?

[rokgpsman]

Use of ATX type computer power supplies is very practical and popular on WMS Dotmation slot machines. See the sticky threads at the top of this (WMS Reel Games) forum. You can use 2 separate ATX power supplies or just one to replace the upper and lower original power supplies.

[rickhunter]

I agree, sounds like a power supply issue.

[CyberPeres]

Well the top one blew out about two weeks after I got the machine. I replaced it with a brand new one. I was hoping at the time it would grant it immortality, as I paid through the nose for it. I also figured being 2004 that the issues may have been engineered out of the design from the factory 1995 units. I have been doing some digging from my last post and find that Newark can still get me an original (45 day lead time which sounds oddly familiar to me as I think I went through that with the top one, it turned out a whole lot faster) That one goes for 110.00 which is a lot cheaper than I paid before. I don't remember though all those details from before, that was a long time ago. When the lower went a couple of months later I could not get a good part number read from anybody and wasn't really able to match it reliably, so I bought a used on on ebay. I did not find you guys then. From the other dude I seem to have a good read on the part now. But I have to be completely sure before I order.

Now the more interesting part of the Newark story is they have a substitute for 30 dollars more, this substitute is medically certified and they have them off the shelf.

Now I have a lot of things to think about.... I'd like to be more stable, I'd also like to keep as original as possible. If I could find a source of game chips (vid,sound and game), also a correct reset chip I'd be likely to go more pricey, standard and long term (I am not sure I even have that completely yet, the guy that I was dealing with was very unreliable he sent me three reset chips (different versions) before one did not error.)

even better I'd like to acquire the gear and skills to master my own, true immortality!


http://www.newark.com/xp-power/pu110-31a/power-supply-85-264vac-5v-12v-110w/dp/52M9432?CMP=KNC-G-DAS-ALL&mckv=kMV575ew|pcrid|dynamictrackcampaigns

Use of ATX type computer power supplies is very practical and popular on WMS Dotmation slot machines. See the sticky threads at the top of this (WMS Reel Games) forum. You can use 2 separate ATX power supplies or just one to replace the upper and lower original power supplies.

[CyberPeres]

Yeah,  it was the original thing I was trying to correct in the first place. Talk about going in circles. I have also been studying as much as I can find on Williams backplanes. I think I have pretty much ruled it out. I still can't wait to see if I can fix the meter board with the 8 bit latch chip replacement I have. I am aiming for total victory. It felt good to get a couple of plays out of it !

I agree, sounds like a power supply issue.

[rokgpsman]

Sounds like you believe the lower power supply is bad, and that is likely from your fault description.

Just for info, if you ever just need to replace the top power supply it is fairly easy. That power supply only supplies 12vdc to the Dotmation controller and the dot matrix screen, that's it. So you just have to connect the 12vdc wire from the dot controller board and from the dot matrix screen to the 12vdc wire from the ATX power supply, plus a ground wire. The ATX power supply will also need to have its power enable line grounded, that's just a simple jumper and is covered in the sticky posts mentioned above. You can do it with molex connectors (better method), or just wire-tie the connections to get things going.

Is it possible that the replacement power supply you installed was new-old-stock (NOS) that was several years old even though it hadn't ever been used? There's some really old stuff still floating around that went from warehouse to warehouse over the years, gets rediscovered and listed for sale.

[knagl]

The power supplies were the weak links in the Dotmation machines.  The ATX power supply fixes documented in the sticky posts in this topic work well, and at only a small cost plus some time and labor.

[CyberPeres]

Sounds like you believe the lower power supply is bad, and that is likely from your fault description.

Just for info, if you ever just need to replace the top power supply it is fairly easy. That power supply only supplies 12vdc to the Dotmation controller and the dot matrix screen, that's it. So you just have to connect the 12vdc wire from the dot controller board and from the dot matrix screen to the 12vdc wire from the ATX power supply, plus a ground wire. The ATX power supply will also need to have its power enable line grounded, that's just a simple jumper and is covered in the sticky posts mentioned above. You can do it with molex connectors (better method), or just wire-tie the connections to get things going.

Is it possible that the replacement power supply you installed was new-old-stock (NOS) that was several years old even though it hadn't ever been used? There's some really old stuff still floating around that went from warehouse to warehouse over the years, gets rediscovered and listed for sale.

No, it was obviously old when I got it. And I replaced the top one with a factory fresh one I custom ordered, I think they actually built it for me fresh. It's the most solid thing I have ever seen in a computer related purchase hands down. It wasn't a new off the shelf old stock either. I paid dearly for it. If I am a 100 percent sure I have a match on the part number I'll do it again for the lower one

[CyberPeres]

The power supplies were the weak links in the Dotmation machines.  The ATX power supply fixes documented in the sticky posts in this topic work well, and at only a small cost plus some time and labor.

I'll keep it in mind as a future stand by option, or if the wife pulls my funding plug before I can get the decision made.

[CyberPeres]

Ok, everyone, I pulled the trigger I ordered the Newark one. Years ago when I got the upper supply they had a ridiculous lead time, I had it in like two weeks. We'll see this time. I have not been operation since Mid Sept - Oct of 2004 I think I can wait a bit more.

At least I have seen my machine act stable, even if it's just a round or two, now I'm keeping it asleep until I get the new power supply in.

I agree, sounds like a power supply issue.

[CyberPeres]

Now that I am waiting for my power supply to be created, what can you guys tell me about how to figure out what reset chip is actually right, and how I can get my hands on backup game chips. Back in the early 2000's it looked like I could get any chipset I wanted from many sources. Today I can't seem to find any Williams dotmation sets.  When I find stuff it all seems to be IGT stuff.  What happened? Is there a software provider you guys use?

I'd love to find all the things I'd need to convert to a Big Bang Piggy Bankin Machine, as I already have the game chips on hand. I'd need the reels, sound chips and video chips from what I understand. Is a conversion even possible ?

[rickhunter]

It's possible, but since these machines are well out of casino's, most dealers no longer have a source for them.  Unfortunately a lot of them who did not end up in the US home market, went overseas and will never come back.  The only reason why parts exists at any given time is because wholesalers buy a machine lots from casinos as  parts complete machines but not guaranteed to be functional.  So the wholesalers usually fixes up whatever they can, and cannibalize machines to get however many they can working, then sell off the remaining working parts.  When the source for parts compete machines dries up, no more parts are restocked.  And a lot of machines end up getting junked for their metal content, a horrible thing to say the least.  Rudysdeals right now has a 9" top glass and 2 coin belly glass for big bang piggy banking.

[Neonkiss]

PM me if you need reel strips.

[CyberPeres]

Pretty much what I thought, which is going to make it harder as time goes on. I see why it's important to get spare stuff when you can. This is where I should have done most of this back when it first happened instead of doing the duck and cover thing every time I hit a wall. I just did not have the documentation and the online help was sketchy at best. I don't think I would have ever figured out the meter board thing without this site. Or got good confirmation on the lower power part number. I did call a few places, and parts suppliers but even that help was elusive and not always correct. Now I have really good documentation and there seems to be better communication between people who know stuff.  Thanks all for at least looking at my plight.

It was bad when about 35 - 50% of the time I got parts that were just plain wrong even after telling them yes it's a Williams Piggy Bankin 40X reel slot. I got sold wrong I/O cards (a video one), wrong reset chips, wrong game chips, bad power supplies, etc.

It's possible, but since these machines are well out of casino's, most dealers no longer have a source for them.  Unfortunately a lot of them who did not end up in the US home market, went overseas and will never come back.  The only reason why parts exists at any given time is because wholesalers buy a machine lots from casinos as  parts complete machines but not guaranteed to be functional.  So the wholesalers usually fixes up whatever they can, and cannibalize machines to get however many they can working, then sell off the remaining working parts.  When the source for parts compete machines dries up, no more parts are restocked.  And a lot of machines end up getting junked for their metal content, a horrible thing to say the least.  Rudysdeals right now has a 9" top glass and 2 coin belly glass for big bang piggy banking.