S-1 Coin Hopper Won't Dispense Coins

[davvet2]

3300 code.

I ran up quite a few credits on my machine, and thought I'd test the coin hopper.

It will throw out a few token coins every now and then stops and reverts to the 3300 code.

I'll open and close the door, and it auto starts then goes right back to the number of credits I have
and the amount it has paid out -- pays out a few tokens -- then right back to the 3300 code.

I tried every way I could think of to clear the credits on the machine -- but even pulling the battery won't clear them,
so the drop has to throw them out to clear it -- and it's not doing it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated !

Thanks,

Jim

[knagl]

So, it is dispensing coins, but just not a lot, then you get the 3300 code.

According to the list of error codes (http://www.newlifegames.net/igterrors/ ), 3300 is a "hopper empty" code.

The machine will throw that code when it thinks the hopper is empty.  Possible reasons for this include:

- The hopper is empty
- The hopper only has a few coins left and can't pick up the last few
- The coins in the hopper aren't getting agitated enough and are jammed in there to the point that the wheel isn't picking up any coins
- The wrong denomination coin/token is in the hopper for the hardware installed in the hopper, so coins aren't getting picked up
- The hopper knife is worn/broken/misaligned causing coins to not exit the hopper when they're brought around on the hopper wheel

Approximately how many coins are in the hopper?  Is this a quarter machine with a quarter hopper?  How big are the tokens you're using in there?  Have you tried using quarters instead of tokens (assuming it's a quarter hopper) to see if they'll pay out more reliably?

I have a machine that is running tokens that are slightly smaller than a US quarter.  It works, kinda, but I've broken a couple of hopper knives in the process and they're generally just a PITA to deal with.  Actual quarters work a lot better since the machine was designed for that size coin.

With the current state of your machine, it needs to cash out all of the remaining credits in order to allow you to play again.  The only alternative is to run a clear chip which will clear everything, including all current settings and bill validator setup (if you have a bill validator).  The clear chip is really a last resort -- ideally you should run coins through until it has finished its payout.

[davvet2]

It's a quarter machine with a quarter hopper. The tokens are almost quarter size -- I have about 200 tokens in the machine.

For what it's worth, when I got the machine and was cleaning it up, I found about 50 tokens thrown everywhere in the machine,
so it was slinging them !

Gonna look at the hopper knife tomorrow and see what's happening...........

Thanks,

Jim

[davvet2]

The knife has a spot worn in it that's getting the coins behind it.

The agitator is worn as well -- will look into replacing both of them.

Thanks,

Jim

[Jim]

there are many reasons why the coins go behind the knife!!!  the most obvious is a bad knife, but there are other things to check before you put a new knife on and destroy it as well.  the only real way to check out a hopper for proper operation is to take the bowl off so you could examine everything. four screws, the coin probe and 1 or 2 weight springs and the bowl will come off. just observe what came from where and how it was attached.  check and see that the knife is laying perfectly flat against the pinwheel (wheel with the nubs on it) , and the chisel point is resting on the shelf wheel. (smaller wheel attached to the pinwheel by the three screws that hold the agitator)  some times people will bend that flat piece of metal that the knife rests on in an attempt to remove jammed coins, and it will cause the knife not to lay flat against the pinwheel.  if all is good with that area, then put coins on the shelf wheel starting from the 12 0'colck position down to the four o'clock position, now hold down the motor brake ( the pivot that has a spring attached to it) with one hand and with the other rotate the agitator ccw and watch as the coins roll up and onto the knife and up through the optics and roll out of the hopper. If it will do this for several coins and nothing looks abnormal  then it should work in the machine.  reassemble the bowl to the main frame and you could test the hopper one of two ways.  make a test cord out of an extension cord,  cut the end off that has the female end and put two push on connectors on the end, attach one to each of the motor prongs ( you will have to remove the ones on them first) plug it into a surge power strip and use the on/off switch to turn the hopper on and off, you can run it like this and observe the operation, if you can get the hopper to payout 100 coins without any problems then the hopper should be good to go. the second way is to check it in the machine using  the hopper test,  in the diagnostic mode , go to the test where you have a #3 in the coins played window, the spin reels should be lit, push the spin reels button, the hopper should come on and count out ten coins, you could test this as may times as you wish. 

Hope this helps

Jim   

[davvet2]

Thanks, Jim --


It looks like someone has been grinding on the knife, the pointed area is short, and the backside has been ground on.

I tried sanding on it to get a better point, but I think the knife is too short.

I took the hopper apart and tried turning it by hand, but I can't get the knife adjusted to where it works correctly.

It will pick up a coin or two then miss the others, and if I adjust it the other way it jams up the wheel.

Think I need a knife.

Jim

[davvet2]

OK,

I bought a new knife and coin agitator, set the knife against the wheel and I'm still getting coins behind the knife !

[davvet2]

Will pay out a few coins - but every time it does it throws a 3300 code -- even when the hopper is full.

What's causing that?

Thanks,

Jim

[knagl]

Will pay out a few coins - but every time it does it throws a 3300 code -- even when the hopper is full.

What's causing that?

The machine displays 3300 when it believes the hopper is empty.  It determines that by the machine not seeing a coin exiting the hopper and going through the coin-out optics for a certain amount of time -- roughly 10 seconds or so.  Since you stated in Reply #6 that you're still getting coins behind the knife, that's why the machine is throwing a 3300 code.  Coins get stuck behind the knife, they're no longer exiting the hopper, and the machine detects that no coins are exiting, hence it thinks the hopper is empty.

You need to get to the bottom of why coins are jamming behind the knife.  Are you using actual quarters (assuming it's a quarter machine)?  If not, try using actual quarters in your hopper, not tokens that are smaller than quarter size (even slightly smaller tokens tend to jam).  See if you get better results with real quarters.

[rokgpsman]

OK,

I bought a new knife and coin agitator, set the knife against the wheel and I'm still getting coins behind the knife !

I didn't see where you said specifically what coin the hopper is set up for. The knife and coin wheel are designed for one particular coin denomination. It may be set up with a nickel wheel and you are using quarters, or it is set up for quarters but you are using tokens slightly different in size, or maybe some other mismatch like that is happening. The wheel and knife are both made for specific coin denominations. The spacing of the "bumps" on the coin wheel can help tell you the size of coin it is made for.

As Jim suggested, did you try rotating the coin wheel manually counter-clockwise and watching the coins as they approach the knife and see what is happening? This is the best way to see and figure out what is going on. You can remove the hopper pretty easy, then remove the bowl and get a good look down in there while slowly rotating the wheel by hand with some coins on the wheel. Otherwise you are just going to be guessing.

[davvet2]

The machine appears to be set up for quarter tokens.  When I got it, it had a sign by the coin slot that said tokens in - tokens out
and there are token sized spots on the wheel by the bumps.

It also had several state tax stickers so it was a Texas legal token machine and a in service purchase sticker on the top that said quarter tokens only.

I built an aluminum copy of the new knife I bought,  and put it on top of the knife with the hope that it would keep the knife flat enough to keep the tokens from getting under it.

It worked -- the machine paid out 80 tokens at one time with no jams. After the jackpot was paid, it threw the 3300 code, and there was about 200 tokens still in the hopper.

BUT-- the next day, it went right back to jamming with coins under the knife.

I'm guessing that the aluminum part I made was too soft and lost its tension after 24 hours under load ?

I also bought a small coin knife guide for the machine -- will have to see if that helps when it arrives next week.
The one on the machine appears to have been carved on.

Edit: I just realized that I'm missing one spring that goes from the hopper box to the frame. The one I'm missing goes is on the side where the tokens pass thru the sensor. I'll have to find one somewhere and see if that helps.

Thanks again --

Jim

[knagl]

IGT never made (to the best of my knowledge) S+ machines designed for tokens.  Please try actual quarters in there.

[davvet2]

I'll have to get some quarters and see what happens.

BTW: He also has a Royal Flush machine that has a dollar bill acceptor, are they SGT + machines ?

Any problems with that machine ? I think the 3.6 battery is dead -- so I know that will need replacing --

Will the dollar bill changer/acceptor have to be reprogrammed ?

Thanks

[CVslots]

BTW: He also has a Royal Flush machine that has a dollar bill acceptor, are they SGT + machines ?

Any problems with that machine ? I think the 3.6 battery is dead -- so I know that will need replacing --

Will the dollar bill changer/acceptor have to be reprogrammed ?

Thanks

Not sure who "He" is, but the machine sounds to be a IGT S+ machine, since there is not such a thing as an SGT+ machine (well, as far as we know of anyway).

The S+ platform of machines are rock solid machines, once up and running, and fairly easy to diagnose and repair. Change the battery and see what you get. Chances are, that will be it.

The bill validator may need to be updated (either a new EPROM or reprogrammed/"flashed" with a new software update, depending on how long it has been since the last update. The updates only allow the machine to accept newer bills, so the older currency will still work meanwhile.

[davvet2]

Thanks.

It's a 200 pound monster !

Jim

[CVslots]

Thanks.

It's a 200 pound monster !

Jim

They all are! That's part of the reason we love them! They are like 200+ lb Pet Rocks when not working! Unfortunately, time did not cut down on the weight at all! S2000s (the next generation to the S+) are no lighter than an S+!!! Well, not anything significant enough to notice anyway....

[rokgpsman]

Thanks.

It's a 200 pound monster !

Jim

Strong construction, they gotta be able to take all that abuse from grumpy old ladies losing their coins! 

[Jim]

Listen! if you are really serious about getting your machine fixed, read and follow the instructions I  posted in reply #4. Also take a picture of the shelf and pin wheel so we could determine if you have the right components. You don't have to reinvent the "wheel" to correct your problem, the hopper works fine and will last a long time when it is assembled properly and all parts are as they should be.

The IGT hopper will work fine on tokens, I have machines that will dispense tokens in size from .900 through .984 for quarters, all the way up to tokens sized for 100.00 tokens.  IGT did in fact make hoppers and parts to handle tokens. A large portion of the casinos outside of Nevada used tokens as there currency (excluding paper money). All the riverboats in Mississippi and Indiana used tokens 100%. IGT had made special escalators for the slant top machine to handle the casinos over-sized token to an American quarter. Casinos were not allowed to produce a coin the same size as an American Quarter (for obvious reasons) so they went undersized or oversized. Most went oversized,.984 

The hopper is a very simple device, it will only work one way to dispense metal objects, if you try to alter that ,it will only cause problems.

Jim     

[stayouttadabunker]

Please allow me to try to help you a bit?
I made a short video clip for you which may explain why coins are getting jammed under your knife.

I'm only guessing when I say that you may have a 5-3/8" coin shelf?
Try using using a slightly smaller diametered 5-5/16th inch coin hopper shelf plate made for larger coins?

The second inclination angle of the hopper knife at the point in which the coin falls towards the coin tray, may be hitting the bottom part of the hopper coin wheel nibs?

Jim's suggestions in Reply#4 are very very helpful for you - I would try what he suggested!

Here's the link to the video I just made for you to take a look at.
The hopper wheel (the one with the steel nibs) is made for quarters and larger denominational sized coins.
The coin shelf in the clip is made for nickels but I'm using a quarter knife.
I hope it helps you understand why the knife is being pushed away from the face of the wheel...even a "New" knife!...>>>


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/eXgLx5xZYok&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/eXgLx5xZYok&rel=0</a>

[davvet2]

OK, I looked at the video, and the nibs on the wheel aren't hitting the knife.

I also took the hopper apart (for the 30th time!) and held the motor brake down and turned the wheel with 10 tokens, and it fed
them all OK.  BUT -- when I installed it again, it fed about 15 tokens -- then they got behind the knife.

I have followed directions exactly and am not having any luck. The only luck I've had was with the aluminum brace I made for the knife to hold it flat -- it fed 80 tokens -- then the next day was right back to tokens getting under the knife.

[stayouttadabunker]

Is the wheel plate or the shelf plate warped?
If it is, that knife plate won't help it hold the knife against the face of the wheel plate as that steel isn't really "spring" steel.
It will just bend.

If the shelf plate is worn, try taking off the three screws, the rubber agitator, flip it over, put the 3 screws and agitator back on. Sometimes you can get lucky with that.

Another thing too is, if there's a flat spot on one of the nibs at the bottom of the wheel nib, like at say, on the 7 o'clock position/location, that will sometimes push the coin directly downwards against the knife as the coin touches the "ramp" of the knife and rip out the knife away from the wheel face.

The point of knife contact and the flat, worn part of the metal wheel nib forcing coin pressure downwards at the thinnest part of the knife construction gives away...esp. if the coin shelf is worn outwards and the tip of the knife slips off.
That's when the coin slips BEHIND the knife causing further problems.

That's why it sometimes works to flip the coin shelf over....hoping the worn angle keeps the knife tip in-line against the face.

Good time to take a flat bastard file and round out the worn flat nib to help it push the coin left over the knife tip instead of downwards pressure.

I hope this helps ya! 

[davvet2]

I don't have a dial indicator, but I did mark the wheel and spun it by hand while looking at the knife edge, and it appears to be flat.

However, I will reverse the plate and see what happens.

Thanks,

Jim

[davvet2]

OK, I reversed the plate and now I have a shiny one !

Put it back together - and after it paid out 15 tokens, they got behind the knife again.

Thanks,

Jim

[stayouttadabunker]

okay...I did some editing...take a look at my reply again...maybe it'll help explain what's happening?
I'm suspecting a worn nib with a flat spot.

Can you take a photo of your wheel nibs for me? Esp. right where one of them is about to touch the knife?
I may be able to determine if your wheel nibs are too worn out or something?


SOMETHING is kicking that knife out! 


Also, does your hopper have a mechancial or non-mechanical optics?
The mechanical optics sometimes makes it hard for the coins to get through as the lever bearing gets worn out.
What happens there is the lever bearing goes bad and  when the coin hits the roller, it causes downward force
and splits the knife open causing jams behind the knife.
The non-mechanical optic eyes are best for home use.

I'm making you another short video from my bench...lol...here it is...>>>

http://youtu.be/xzXW9I9hv24                       

oh btw...you can just snap a rubber band around the brake lever
and motor if you don't have masking tape...haha

[davvet2]

Thanks for the video, I have the non mechanical optic.

Email sent so I can send you photos.

Thanks,

Jim