best canadian bill validator for igt s+ slot

[clizifer]

hey there, i have 5 igt s+ slot machines. they are currently fitted with mei zt1102 us currency validators. these validators light up but for whatever reason dont seem to be working. they wont accept my us currency, possibly its the notes are too new for it? anyways i live in canada and would like to change these to accpept the new canadian polymer notes. i have read that the jcm wba 23 would work. im curious tho do i need to change out the entire unit?  (power supply, cash box, etc.) or can i just change the bill acceptor unit itself? and finally where would i be able to purchase 5 of the units?? any info is appreciated, thanks

[Styx]

When we convert ours to new BVs, we usually change the BV and the housing. Sometimes a new harness is needed depending on the manufacturer of the machine. We've had a lot of problems with the WBA's on the floor with the new polymer bills, but it's only hardware errors. Reseating the BV clears the error, sometimes reseating it up to 10+ times. Because it was driving us crazy having a whole floor going into errors with the upgrade, we are converting all of ours to UBA and ivision BVs.

For a home machine, the errors won't likely drive you as crazy, so I'm not saying don't do it. I'm just letting you know what to possibly expect with WBAs and the new polymer bills.

-Styx

[clizifer]

ok, thanks for the heads up. do you have any part numbers on the uba or ivision bill validators?? and any idea where I could purchase a few of them??

[jay]

I am also in Canada and interested in this.

Remember these are S+ machines.
In the US JCM (The manufacture of DBV,CBA,WBA and now UBA) dropped support (ie never released updates) for the newer US bills for the S+ protocols.

While I am sure the UBA's would accept the new money I am not sure it will validate for the S+ platform. All of the Canadian Casinos have IGT S2000's or the newer AVP platforms.

[blueridgeslots]

You are not going to be able to use a UBA or iVison in a S+

WBA is Not going to accept new bills (only up to new $5 in 2006)

http://old.jcm-american.com/docs/software/w22_24004_can_id023.pdf

Your best best and only real choice is the WBA 22/23 for the S+

If you have ZT-1102 you should update to WBA unless you have ZT-1202

However you could easily update the ZT-1202 you have to accept up to the New $10 US bill fairly reasonable with just a chip change

btw a UBA is running about $175-200 (plus software upgrade) and iVisons are running $300-400

[jay]

That's US not C$

[clizifer]

ok so back to the wba 23 then, where would I be able to get one that works with Canadian currency? and will it work with my current power supply and cash box setup? or do I need to get that as well? will the wba 23 come pre programmed to accept all the new canadian currency?

[Styx]

Those were all very good points. K+

I am unfamiliar with S+ platforms, and we do not have them in our casino.

-Styx

[Styx]

I think if you read blueridgeslots' post over again, he's explaining that for your machine, the best you could do is get a WBA that will accept up to the new (edited: 2006 bills). Or you could use that certain version of other BV (if you have that version) to upgrade to the new $10 in US. (Hopefully I don't have that misunderstood)

I think Jay was saying that nothing else is supported past that for the S+ platforms.

And for myself, I was saying that I'm pretty useless when it comes to the S+  

-Styx

[jay]

The link that Blueridge provided is the last piece of documentation that I have seen on the matter.

It says software is available to bring the validator up to bills that were last released in 2006. All of the newer polymer currency was not issued until at least 2010 perhaps later.
So unless the UBA or later supports the S+ protocol then you (we) are stuck with the WBA as the last supported model.

There are 4 pieces that comprise the bill system in an S+. These are the head, the transport, cash can and power supply.
In the DBV/CBA series the heads were physically different betwen the US and Canadian models  as the sensors for the security spots were in physcially
different locations from the US dollars.

I believe the same WBA head can read, US, Canadian and Euros. The only difference is the duck bill which aligns the different widths of bills.

In the DBV/CBA world the "validation chip" was kept in the head. In the WBA series this chip is in the transport.  
So to convert to Canadian bills you need to replace the transport.

The cash can typically does not need to be replaced however depending on use you may want to as the springs and things tend to become problematic from extensive casino use.

Finally the power supply - this is not the full power supply of the S+ but a small black box usually mounted under the reel tray. Between the older 2way acceptor DBV145 and the DBV200 you needed to change the power supply as the older did not have the amperage. IF you currently have a USA WBA you will not need to change this to accept the Canadian version of the WBA.

Knowing very little about the UBA - I would assume that the head, transport and power supply would need to be changed if we were able to upgrade .

In conclusion - what we need to be looking for is a protocol convertor. A small board that would go between the validator and the slot allowing the head to talk the new protocols and convert to the older S+.

Just looking at the cost of a bunch of this stuff about 2 years ago. I came to the conculsion that I would basically ignore my DBV/WBA on the slots and if I wanted to upgrade it would be cheaper for me to buy a $500-$600 S2000 (that takes all my older glass kits and software) + has TITO + new bills. The alternative is to buy a bunch of parts not designed for my machine, and still not end up with TITO.

By no means am I discouraging further research on this matter and as my first post said. I am very interested in your findings. So if you find an inexpensive way to make this happen I will be on your band wagon in a second.

[clizifer]

so basically if I understand all this correctly, the wba 23 will only accept bills up to 2006? and the new polymer bills were introduced in 2010 and newer. so there would really be no point in updating my machines to those because the older bills are disappearing for the new polymer ones and it would be useless unless I started saving the older bills. so there is pretty much no way I can get my s+ machine to accept Canadian polymer bills pretty much. so what do all you Canadians with s+ machines do with the bill validators? screw on a block out plate and call it a day? lol I would really like for atleast 1 of my machines to accept some form of Canadian currency to make change. either that or I change it over to accept us currency if that's a possibility. what are your thoughts?

[jay]

I have 3 S+s and a PE+ (video poker from the same era).
They are all networked with both shared and standalone progressives.
I also have a roulette wheel with all the signage. A bar with 3 tap towers etc.

They are however still home machines so I don't use any real money.

I have just over 10000 tokens and a coin rolling machine.
When people come over I just hand them a couple of rolls of tokens and a coin cup.

[clizifer]

I have a games room that consists of 3 s+ slots as well as an older 70's bally slot and an 80's sigma jokers wild video poker. besides that tho I have 5 pinball machines, 2 arcade games, a coin op pool table, coin op bubble hockey table and a 1960's coke machine that accepts all Canadian coin currency. all my games run on quarters, aside from the poker machine that's nickels and I have a $1 slot, but other than they are all quarters. I usually just give out little buckets full but it would be nice to have one of my s+ slot machines be able to cash out a $5 or $10 bill into quarters on occasion. all my games are for amusement only and all cash stays in house. im just curious if it could be done and if its not too pricy I would like to do it to one of my machines

[clizifer]

ok, just to revive this topic a little im curious if theres any canadians with s+ slot machines and what bill validators they run. is there something i can get that will accept the newest paper canadian currency? before they changed to the polymer bills?? there are still 5s 10s and 20s in circulation, i could save up a few of those just as something to play with. make the machine more authentic

[jay]

The link that blueridge provided has the latest software.
This gets installed in the transport. Not sure if this is a socketed chip or if there is an easy way to flash.

I would need to look at my older bills to see if their dates match the ones on the WBA page.

[clizifer]

so your saying that if i manage to find a wba 23 i still will have to get it flashed or change the chip to be the most current it can be? where might i be able to find a used wba 23?? they seem to be hard to find. im guessing ill need the complete unit to swap out with my mei validator. then my next question is where could i get a canadian eprom???

[jay]

I think the 12/13 heads are for US currency and include a magnetic reader where as the 22/23 are for foreign currency with no mag reader.

The "Chip" is in the transport not the head (what the head thumb screws into).
You would want the most recent software version that supports Canadian Currency on the S+. That version number is in the spec sheet that Blueridge attached.

If you were to buy something at Random you would want to upgrade to this version which means either replacing the chip (assuming its socketed) or building a custom cable and flashing it with software available from JCM. There are other threads in this section of the forum that has the steps to do this. Personally I suck at building cables I would just buy a pre-flashed unit.

With the WBA there are the three compoents.
Head + Transport (What the head thumb screws into) + Cash Can.

WIth the MEI your going to need the Head + Transport and perhaps the other parts that feed the cash can as well.

WIth respect to availability. If your just expecting a Canadian head (plus the other bits) to show up on Fleabay you might be searching for a while.

I might first direct you to Contact Wayne (A69Mopar) he is a reseller of slots based in Toronto.
He would be my first stop for Canadian Validators.

Next I would start calling the vendors on the NLG home page. Most of them could advise what you need and flash a head to any version of software you need.
Be sure to identify yourself as a NLG member.

[jay]

Have a look at this.....

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/86KCq7Nr3sg&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/86KCq7Nr3sg&rel=0</a>
It is a protocol convertor board.
The video says its being used with a PE+ game and is doing a ID003 to ID022 conversion.
When I go to the appointed web site  http://agaslots.com
I don't see this specfic conversion but was thinking of contacting the vendor.

A couple of observations is that the game shown on the screen is not like any PE+ game I have other seen --- Comments ???

Theoretically you could take a WBA23 and have it talk to a PE+

I am wondering if a current UBA would fit in a PE+ ???

[clizifer]

interesting. I wonder if theres a way to get this to work in an s+

[jay]

It would be exactly the same.
Different slot machines use different protocols.
Basically IGT abandoned the 022 protocol with the new machines using 003
So if you have a device that converts from 3 to 22 the machine and the head don't know any difference.

You would still need a new device that accepts Canadian bills + the convertor.

I don't know the cost.of either but I suspect your looking at $400-500

[knagl]

A couple of observations is that the game shown on the screen is not like any PE+ game I have other seen --- Comments ???

I commented in the other thread, here:

http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=26105.msg212502#msg212502

The video says its being used with a PE+ game and is doing a ID003 to ID022 conversion.
When I go to the appointed web site  http://agaslots.com
I don't see this specfic conversion but was thinking of contacting the vendor.

I'm guessing it's using the ID003 to Pulse conversion, and then the guys in the video figured out the correct pulses for the DBV-145 / ID022/ID023 output.  Here's the documentation on the ID003 to Pulse conversion from the site you mentioned:

http://agaslots.com/pdf/id003_to_pulse_en.pdf

interesting. I wonder if theres a way to get this to work in an s+

I agree with what Jay said -- the S+ and PE+ used the same two protocols.  If it would work in a PE+, it'd work in an S+.