Sponsors-Links: We have 3 open spots....

[jay]

Buzz I am 1/2 way down the middle.....

Given the traffic this site generates Joey should be partnering with 1click or similar entity and getting cash for use of a top page / bottom page banner - using borders and such he could separate this from the regular NLG content. Then continue to offer free banners to the folks he chooses to offer them too. One does not exclude the other.

I also think Joey should monitize and provide a portal to sell machines, parts, accessories and stuff on line. Any one "authorized to sell" could then list their for sale items and joey would receive a %% of what was sold. My thoughts is that the seller would remain anonymous to the users making this a level vehicle for anyone to sell. SO if Joey or others wanted to sell something and not have it compete with his bricks and mortar shop or similar this would again be neutral territory.

Finally I have no problems with a free community but could see having only the most recent 3-5 posts of any thread available to non-contributing members and unlocking the remainder of the forum along with search features to contributing members. I am also fond of different levels of recognition.
Full Member = contribution of $x, Supporting Member = contribution of $y, Benifactor = contribution of $z, Lifetime member = priceless
I am not suggesting that contributing more would = more but it would recognise those who make a difference.

[Buzz]

Jay for you and I to agree on anything, it's going to be a good year. " Thank You "

It just burns my butt to see him trying to scratch a living out of a dieing slot shot when he has this forum and the ability to turn it around to his advantage. I could write a book here but why. Bottom line is there ard a bunch of cheap folks on this forum and nothing is going to change. Make one 25 dollar donation and they are good for life. I've learned a ton of information from this forum and 50/60 dollars a year would be cheap tuition for Slot 101

[StatFreak]

Buzz I am 1/2 way down the middle.....

Given the traffic this site generates Joey should be partnering with 1click or similar entity and getting cash for use of a top page / bottom page banner - using borders and such he could separate this from the regular NLG content. Then continue to offer free banners to the folks he chooses to offer them too. One does not exclude the other.

I also think Joey should monitize and provide a portal to sell machines, parts, accessories and stuff on line. Any one "authorized to sell" could then list their for sale items and joey would receive a %% of what was sold. My thoughts is that the seller would remain anonymous to the users making this a level vehicle for anyone to sell. SO if Joey or others wanted to sell something and not have it compete with his bricks and mortar shop or similar this would again be neutral territory.

Finally I have no problems with a free community but could see having only the most recent 3-5 posts of any thread available to non-contributing members and unlocking the remainder of the forum along with search features to contributing members. I am also fond of different levels of recognition.
Full Member = contribution of $x, Supporting Member = contribution of $y, Benifactor = contribution of $z, Lifetime member = priceless
I am not suggesting that contributing more would = more but it would recognise those who make a difference.

Here are my thoughts, out of order.

1. That second idea for a selling portal is interesting. I have some issues with anonymity, however. Transactions will inevitably have friction. Who handles that? Will Joey have to run interference when one of the "pre-authorized anonymous sellers" fails to deliver or is otherwise in conflict with a buyer?

I do agree that Joey should be charging a fee or collecting a percentage for items sold here, but it might be better done using straight classified ads.


2. No one likes to look at outside banner ads, but they are a fact of life on the free internet, since nothing in this world is free. We are a nation of consumers who have grown up expecting free entertainment and who expect to "pay" for it by being forced to watch advertising. (Don't get me started on paying for TV only to then still be bombarded with ads.)

In short, I agree with you regarding 1-click or other banner advertising. The site has enough traffic to generate income and to be of interest to advertisers. We might want to try to attract banner ads that offer things of interest to our membership. Members here tend to be interested in electronics, computers, amateur radio, recreational vehicles (including ATV's bikes, cars, trucks, etc.), leisure travel, guns, and several other hobbies, including slots.

3. I'm with Joey. The site should remain free to members. (They'll be paying by providing a base to advertise to, just as with most free services.) It's also a better move if he is going to implement either of the above suggestions because traffic and page hits determine banner pricing, and more visitors means more sales in the classifieds.

[jay]

My ramblings around the anonoymous aspect was to the fact that many of our vendors have brick and mortar stores and/or another online presence either through their own web site or Ebay.

So while a shiny S+ may go for $1340 in a retail shop this particular community would probably not be willing to pay more than $350 for the same unit.
Don't get me wrong - it takes blood sweat and tears to shop out a machine, plus storage, plus time on the floor plus electricity, rent etc... - I am not begruding anyone a profit or the ability to eek out a living especially when this may be their sole source of income.

What I was suggesting is that we have pre-qualified vendors who could sell at any price (presumeably lower) to NLG members without impacting their other sales mediums.

What used to burn my chops is when I went into Future Shop (a canadian clone of bestbuy) and saw "on the floor" prices that were higher (signficantly so) then their web price.
One of the kids there gave me a bit of insight that this then gave them the lattitude to deal on the price, or throw product in like a $49 HDMI cable to close the deal. He also alluded that instore customers were work (labor cost, comission, etc) while the web site just churned money.

I was thinking that the commerce part would flow though NLG - so Joey gets his $ first with the balance going to the vendor once the deal is cleanly closed.

[StatFreak]

Everything you're saying makes sense but my question stands. Who would handle disputes, complaints, lost/damaged/never delivered product, etc.? If the vendor walks away from the deal I envision Joey taking the loss in the middle (same outcome if the customer ends up owning extra money for some reason and fails to pay), as well as having to handle (or at least broker) heat from both sides in any deal that doesn't go smoothly.

[CVslots]

Why can't we just exclude Joey/NLG from liability all together? Want to sell an item? The cost is $x.xx for a X number of days. Flat fee, or fee based on price (preferable, and probably most logical). The fee is paid to NLG regardless of wether it sells or not. Take advantage of PayPals system and use it as the payment method. Payment made directly to seller by buyer via PayPal. Any disputes, bitches, complaints? Use PayPals Resolution process. We could even keep the current Classifieds section as free, and then add a longer running Paid Ad section.

[Buzz]

HUH    I can see a sure cluster F*** in the making !!  wonder who is going to volunteer to take care of all the book work this is going to generate ??

I know the ansewer to this but still, why are the banner ads free ??  If there was a fee imposed for the banners, how many of the vendors would keep theirs ?? After all the Banner is advertising isn't it and isn't advertising a tax write off !! Joey you would be doing those vendors a favor by charging them and keeping them out of a higher tax bracket.

Hey Boss I just got the best idea I've had this year. Seems like some folks don't like my idea of monthly dues to stay active on this forum, shame on me for expecting the folks that use this site to actually pay for the privilege. How about every month you post a list of the donations you received for the previous month listing the members name and the amount of the donation ?? Better yet if possible, in each persons avatar put the date and how must they donated. ( Damn I like that idea ) If it's possible I'll even do it for you, just as long as I don't get a RED shirt !!

[jay]

Dem's don't like red ? 

[CVslots]

HUH   I can see a sure cluster F*** in the making !!  wonder who is going to volunteer to take care of all the book work this is going to generate ??

If there was a fee imposed for the banners, how many of the vendors would keep theirs ?? After all the Banner is advertising isn't it and isn't advertising a tax write off !! Joey you would be doing those vendors a favor by charging them and keeping them out of a higher tax bracket.

I don't see a cluster there at all. NLG is simply listing the ad and is not responsible for anything. The money would pass from buyer to seller direct, not through NLG. You wouldn't get pissed off at Craigslist or the newspaper when you buy from their classifieds, would you? I HEREBY VOLUNTEER!!!!!  It could just be a flat fee to list based on value, no final value fee at the end like eBay does. Selling something for $50? Gonna cost you $2.00, or whatever. Set up a separate PayPal acct to collect the listing fees for ease of bookkeeping. I'm sure one of you guys (well, maybe not me or Buzz, but someone could I'm sure) could set up some little automatic deal that made you pay at the time you posted the ad.

Fees on banners? Excellent idea! I would still support the concept of voting them in though, we don't want it clogged up with a bunch of BS vendors. Wow, if you think about that one, its kinda funny. "You've been chosen for a sponsor spot on NLG, now here's your bill!"  

I also support the idea of limiting the number of posts someone can post before becoming a contributing member. I think it should be limited to maybe 5 or 10?

[Buzz]

Dem's don't like red ?  

Neither do BULLS, and a Red car is safer than many other colors!!   And Fireman have bigger balls than Policeman.  


Let me see if I can get this clear. Say you have a kit you want to sell for XX number of dollars, you will pay a percentage or what ever for the listing, BUT if a individual has a FREE banner ad that  individual pays nothing !!  ( It's rare if someone with a banner to list something for sale ) Or how about the sales handled via PMs, no listing NO sale. " cluster f*** "

Went through this before, there is only one vote for a banner ad and Roz you or I aren't the ones that cast that vote !!Your words hot mine "clogged up with a bunch of BS vendors.\" I say bring on the BS vendors if they have to pay for a ad.

Oh I know I'm wasting my time on this subject but what the hell, I'm asking each and everyone of you to donate five bucks a month to the NLGs. Now you ask will folks listen, I don't think so. Why pay when you can get something for free. Just remember this old Bastard told you, if Joey closes the doors this site is gone, like finished, like no more !!

Talked to Joey today and he is going to furnish a list of each months denotations, who and how much.  I'll stay on his ass each and every month until I see that list and that list will be posted. Then we can all see who the cheap folks and who pays their fair share..



Moderator: Edited to remove dashed line forcing a horizontal scroll bar in post. Replaced with dynamic line. SF.

[4 Deuces]

Dave's psychic predictions and psycho opinions ...

Prediction # 1: If you charge a fee for selling on NLG, then people will simply sell elsewhere, like Craig's List or simply direct PM.  I just don't think that can possibly work without becoming an Ebay.

Prediction # 2: Charging to become a member would cause newbies to drop significantly.  I think chatter in general would drop because the two frequently used areas are the Classifieds and newbies seeking help.  That would leave just classifieds and the occasional insanity rants from Buzz (isn't that the name of your thread).

Opinion # 1: I think the annual Bettor Slots giveaway is a great way to muster up annual funds.  One ticket is 5 months worth of $5 a month, so make it a $60 buy-in and you've got a year's coverage.

Opinion # 2: Joey is noticeably absent from these discussions.  Given that it's his site and his money and the fact that Joey doesn't strike me as a shy fella, why isn't he speaking up?  Curious, do other popular forums routinely charge their members?

[Neonkiss]

... And Fireman have bigger balls than Policeman.  

  Because they sell more TICKETS...  

[CVslots]

Dem's don't like red ? 

Neither do BULLS, and a Red car is safer than many other colors!!    And Fireman have bigger balls than Policeman.   


Let me see if I can get this clear. Say you have a kit you want to sell for XX number of dollars, you will pay a percentage or what ever for the listing, BUT if a individual has a FREE banner ad that  individual pays nothing !!  ( It's rare if someone with a banner to list something for sale ) Or how about the sales handled via PMs, no listing NO sale. " cluster f*** "

Went through this before, there is only one vote for a banner ad and Roz you or I aren't the ones that cast that vote !!Your words hot mine "clogged up with a bunch of BS vendors.\" I say bring on the BS vendors if they have to pay for a ad.

Oh I know I'm wasting my time on this subject but what the hell, I'm asking each and everyone of you to donate five bucks a month to the NLGs. Now you ask will folks listen, I don't think so. Why pay when you can get something for free. Just remember this old Bastard told you, if Joey closes the doors this site is gone, like finished, like no more !!

Talked to Joey today and he is going to furnish a list of each months denotations, who and how much.  I'll stay on his ass each and every month until I see that list and that list will be posted. Then we can all see who the cheap folks and who pays their fair share..

Well, point taken, touché (if you're into that. I'm not personally). I do think sponsors should be reminded to donate (I know I forget all the time). However, we need to keep this slot related. We need to keep the sponsors slot-related (or at least I, as a viewer/member/whatever, I  dont want to see ads for cell phone coverage, home security, home loans, etc. Am I saying it should be free? Hell no, I value this site and value the site spot we have! Charge me whatever you think is fair, $10, 20, 40/month. If I think it's worth it, I will stay. If not, I will go elsewhere (where is kind of up for debate, as NLG is pretty much tops for our niche/addiction/fetish).

I have no problem paying monthly for the for the sponsor spot to support the site. My issue is with the "member"  who has 40-50 posts with no contributions. I really believe that only contributing members should have access to the archives. We've resolved 99% of every problem ion the S+ and S2000 platform. That in itself, is PRICELESS!!!

We need to remember not only do we attract home-enthusiasts, but we also attract "entrepreneurs"...cough cough....




Moderator: Edited to remove dashed line forcing a horizontal scroll bar in post. Replaced with dynamic line. SF.

[StatFreak]

... Curious, do other popular forums routinely charge their members?

No they don't. I'm an active member of six forums and only one (the smallest, ironically) just recently instituted a pay-for-use policy, and it was not so much for income as it was to try to keep out certain elements who were being disruptive. The site lost a lot of members when they did that. Now it's mostly a "good ol' boys" club since it was mostly the senior posters/long time members who were willing to pay to keep their relationships/banter/whatever.

I'm not sure I'm going to stay there in the long run because that forum's main purpose is at odds with public viewing* so it's hard to get any help or real information there unless one has made enough friends to get private help. I was slowly working on that but paying by the month for the privilege isn't exactly floating my boat. I'm sure there's a private area since every forum has one, but I'm not in it.

*It's still a public forum despite the cost, since anyone can join.

I still believe that Joey would do better to leverage our site traffic by selling click through ads and possibly charging for our banner ads, rather than charging members and cutting site traffic.


BTW, selling the banner ads doesn't mean that Joey can't keep control of who gets an ad. It can remain by invitation only. The only difference would be that it would then be up to the vendor as to whether or not they wanted to pay for the ad or not. If not, then no ad. If John Doe wanted to pay for an ad, Joey could still say, "No."

Monetizing the banner ads does not require open access to them.

<EDIT>

[StatFreak]

<ADD> Monetizing the classified ads is certainly doable. However, I tend to agree with 4 deuces that many would just use Craigslist instead. If we tried to restrict posts directing people to those Craigslist ads, we'd be opening up a proverbial can of worms and create a policing nightmare; if not, then members would still benefit from NLG's traffic to steer people to their Craigslist ads for nothing.

Of course, fewer classifieds would significantly reduce bandwidth since they account for so much of our activity now. That could be a plus. As far as PMs were concerned, the fee would be charged to place the post in the first place, so an offline transaction wouldn't get the seller out of paying the fee unless it was entirely private, and that would be fine. No mass exposure: no fee. Once again though, we'd end up policing all of the non-classified threads constantly looking for posts that were trying to avoid the fee.


One more thing that tends to be forgotten and in fact, isn't even known by most here, is that Newlifegames has a mission statement. Joey started this site back in 2005 because of the refusal of that "other" slot tech forum's members to help non-pros and because they restricted access to manuals and other information. He wanted to create a site that was open to everyone, that would answer every question and that would freely share information.

[777sizzler]

Whole thread here is about this--- .  Much and many input.  The owner will decide what is correct I am sure.  Just keep beating a dead dog here as a fig. of speach. 

[StatFreak]

Whole thread here is about this--- .  Much and many input.  The owner will decide what is correct I am sure.  Just keep beating a dead dog here as a fig. of speach. 

Of course it's all Joey's decision.    But that doesn't mean he won't read this thread. It's never a bad thing to discuss opposing points of view and to consider a problem from several different perspectives, no matter who does the debating and who does the deciding. 

[Buzz]

David  I don't see any reason the repeat what I've already said. You and I talked about this very thing a few years ago, you haven't changed your mind and I haven't changed mine. Botton line is we can have a "Free " forum or maybe " No " forum !!!!!!

I can't hardly wait for the first list to come out on who donated what.  I've only got three days to get mine in so I make the first list.

[Neonkiss]

I can't hardly wait for the first list to come out on who donated what.  I've only got three days to get mine in so I make the first list.

I can tell you my name will not be on that list as I have not donated in a while. All of my recent donations have been by the way of sending free parts and shipping to members and asking them to make a donation to the site.

[4 Deuces]

I can't hardly wait for the first list to come out on who donated what.  I've only got three days to get mine in so I make the first list.

Buzz, on the home page, the site's solicitation states, "If you find this site helpful, Please Consider makeing a Donation To help defray the cost of hosting and bandwidth.  Thank You !!"  If you post donations in an attempt to shame people into donating without consideration of those who donate in other ways (as NeonKiss stated above), then you might as well change the site solicitation to read, "Please consider donating on a monthly basis.  If you don't, your name will be posted for everyone to see how much you don't donate on a monthly basis.  Thank you."

Maybe you could divide the number of posts by their donations to calculate their contribute by posts?

That's opinion # 3.  

[StatFreak]

I have option #4.

Buzz can start his own site and charge whatever he likes.   

[Buzz]

I have options #4.

Buzz can start his own site and charge whatever he likes.   

.

David THAT really pisses me off that you could say something like that.

 I'll tell you what I'll match you dollar for dollar any amount you wish to donate, services for services rendered, I've got you covered there to.

  Do you think I get a percentage of all donations ?? I see a fellow here that had a idea 9 years ago, and I see a way for that fellow to make ends meet and I become the bad guy.

[4 Deuces]

I see a fellow here that had a idea 9 years ago, and I see a way for that fellow to make ends meet and I become the bad guy.

C'mon Buzz, you've always been the bad guy!     It's a tough job, but someone's gotta do it and you do it so well and we all like you for it. 

Don't worry.  I don't think you'll be the bad guy for long.  As soon as I send that spam email again this year asking everyone to donate $25 for the Bettor Slots giveaway, my Karma will drop faster than Clinton's pants in the white house!
 
:Dave

[CVslots]

Speaking of the Great Giveaway, I'm already working on trivia questions to have some fun and keep the chatter going. I think we're gonna giveaway 2 entires per week, but it depends on how many questions I can come up with.

[StatFreak]

I have options #4.

Buzz can start his own site and charge whatever he likes.    

.

David THAT really pisses me off that you could say something like that.

 I'll tell you what I'll match you dollar for dollar any amount you wish to donate, services for services rendered, I've got you covered there to.

  Do you think I get a percentage of all donations ?? I see a fellow here that had a idea 9 years ago, and I see a way for that fellow to make ends meet and I become the bad guy.

Well, Joey told me this morning that you were mad at me, but not really, so now I guess it's official. (See, I can stir the pot with the best of 'em.)

No, I'm not suggesting anything of the kind. I know you donate more than probably any other member on the site. I'm saying that you're trying to impose your own set of values that differ from Joey's and at the end of the day, it's his site and his decision to make, not yours or mine. He's not going to charge members for the use of NLG. I'd tell you to ask him yourself, but you already know it.


<ADD> And you and I actually agree (OMG) that Joey should be making some money from all the work he put into this, which is why I've been suggesting charging the vendors for the banner ads while still preserving the restrictions on who gets them, and possibly trying to figure out other ways of generating revenue.