Help a newbie troubleshoot and learn

[smileman83]

Hi guys. Okay I have a GK that I am converting into an I game. It originally was an 044 game, but because of the game titles I was going to use, I have changed the back plane and board to the 3902 system (think I said that right). I am to the point of getting ready to try things. I did swap the CRT monitor out for an LCD as well ( straight swap- no other changes).

The machine does power on and I believe I reattached all cables correctly to the backplane as they are numbered.

Without any chips on the board, the LCD shows a pixelated, puzzled mess or colors. Thought that might be because there was no software on the board, so I ventured out to place software chips. I am making a Super cherry game. The chipset is labeled as follows:

GME1, GME2 ( see where those go on board, the base chip, also see its location, and then 3 simms- i larger one marked CGF 1 of 2 ( not sure if this goes under the MM lite board or on the MM lite board (basically above on the MM lite board) or below on the 3902 board. The others are marked PXLF 2 of 2, and SNDF which is the DSS chip.

So initially I need a little help with exactly where the chips go. Also dont know if I am missing a chip since the only ones marked x of x are the CGF 1 of 2 and the PXLF 2 of 2. Also not sure which Simm slot they go in.

Once I have that decided, I can insert board and see what happens. The garbled video concerns me as to whether I have got a bad board, monitor, connection etc and I am trying to troubleshoot and any help is appreciated.

[CVslots]

Sounds like software issues...ASSuming all the monitor connections are correct. You are braver than me, as I (and please, do not take offense) would have tried either the software OR the monitor change at one time, not simultaneously! If you have an issue, you won't know what caused what, as a bad monitor can cause issues similar to bad software. Sounds like a software issue at this point, so I'd focus on making sure that's all correct first!

A Search of "3902 software" or "3902 board" should do it. If not, I'm sure we can get ya going!

[smileman83]

I was wondering since the lcd monitor has a power connection and a vga port on the back, can you simply hook this up to a laptop and see if the monitor is good? Once the m,onitor is known to be good or bad, I can check the 19 pin connector and trace things back to see if wiring is an issue. In hindsight youre right, but this is a project machine that was gutted. I know previously it had an 044 board and a crt and the software worked fine and the monitor was also correct.

Will be an interesting project to say the least. But I want to address one thing at a time. So if I can rule out the monitor by connecting it to a laptop, someone let me know. Other than changing the backplane, monitor and mainboard, no other changes were made to the machine.

[turniphead]

I was wondering since the lcd monitor has a power connection and a vga port on the back, can you simply hook this up to a laptop and see if the monitor is good?

you've already done it probably but yes...simply hook your laptop up via VGA to test the LCD.

[turniphead]

...a bad monitor can cause issues similar to bad software.

i disagree CVslots, a monitor is a dumb device that only does what the CPU tells it to do.  on or off, that's about it; the monitor has no idea what it's supposed to display, it takes the video signal from the CPU and projects an image from it.  if the signal is muxed up then the picture is muxed up; has nothing to do with the monitor itself.  the touch screen is a netplex device, not part of the monitor circuitry even though it's attached to the monitor. 

OP you gotta have the simms in to get your graphics and sound.  actually you have to have the simms in just to get the game to boot up so those are your problem.  from memory so forgive any errors...

the big CG one goes under the MM2 board in the socket on the 3902, the SNDF one goes on the MM2 board and the PXLF goes into the sockets right next to your game and ram chips, doesn't matter which order or socket.  and i doubt you're missing any as long as the C000xxx numbers match.  g/l!! 

[Buzz]

 CGF Sim goes below the MM II sound board position J3
DSS Sim goes on the MM II sound board position J2
PXL Sims will go into J6, J7, J8   Makes no difference which slot you install which Sim. ( check the dip switch settings on the PXL Sims) PXL (3) 2 of 3  on on on off   PXL(4) 3 of 3 off on on off, PXL (5)  3 of 3 on off on off
Game (1) prom position U13 Game (2) prom position U36  ( make sure the notch is in the right direction )
Base prom is a NO brain er as there is only one place it fill fit

Because your are seeing scrambled graphs I think your monitor is OK It's displaying what the machine is telling it to display and with no software installed it's displaying garbage. Side note if you ever see scrambled graphs most times the problem will be with a prom and not a Sim.

It's gonna be a crap shoot if this game will come up and play without having a clear/key chip. All I can tell you to do is install the software and turn the machine on, with the main door open the machine will go through it's boot up. what seems like ten minutes that damn alarm will sound off, grab a hand full of jackpot key and start turning it. ( you can't turn it too many times ) It should tell you on the screen to press the test button for (3) seconds ( button on the MPU ) wait a life time and machine will either boot up or your going to get that damn alarm again. If you get the alarm 3/4 times your going to have to clear and key chip the machine.

I'm not going to get into a pissing match of which Key chip is the correct one, I use a Key 22 and I have about 60 3902 boards with different games on them and everyone of them I used a Key 22, a Key 040 will also work. I suppose other key chips will work, I don't know, I use what I know will work. ( I really don't need the practice of installing different chips !! )

[Buzz]

I got to looking and the Super Cherry set I have has only one PXL simm 2 of 2  This is a 15 line Multi Denom game

Base I0000832
Gme 1&2 G0000711
CGF/PXL C0000660
Sound  DSS 00076

[smileman83]

Okay- did hook up the monitor and its fine. Corrected one chip placement which was the sndf chip and placed in on the MM lite board ( had it next to the pxl chip simm). Placed in Key chip 22 and got to the three bar message and turned the jackpot key and did that 3 times and rebooted and got to the error messages and then the key chip menu. ( Did get after reboot cofiguration errors, but used reset key and it proceeded to key chip menu) Screen was offset so did an autoadjust to center. Can get to some of the menu with the touchscreen but the right side bottom where the exit is wont work and I dont see a touchscreen test reset yet so I may have a bad touchscreen. This is a ceronix monitor but the touchscreen board on the back says JCT I think or something like that. All connections look good, but I am kind of stuck without the touchscreen menu to be able to set things, but at least the monitor appears okay. There is a small vertical scratch on the touchscreen and I am not sure if that matters.

Is there a way to test the touchscreen or do I simply need to get a new one to be able to proceed?

[Buzz]

Close the main door, turn the jackpot key a few times and follow on screen instructions for "Touch Screen Calibration "

[smileman83]

Can i do that even though i havent set up things on key chip menu?

[Buzz]

I don't know if you go ahead and calibrate the screen you will still be in "Key Menu" or not. Seems like you have no choice, first calibrate and then maybe your going to have to use the key chip again.

[smileman83]

tried to buzz, but no go. Turning reset key doesnt go into calibration mode. As i sad I can access the key chip menu on the left side of the screen where the choices are, but once I enter a choice and you try and change anything, and then try and hit the large exit button in the lower right of the screen, it doesnt respond and I cant get back to the main key chip menu screen. Not sure where to go from here.

[Buzz]

If you close the door with power on the machine will exit key menu.  Try that and then cal. the touch screen and then if all else fails use the key chip again.

About the only thing you have to set in Key menu is the denomation and game selection. Everything else is set after you leave key menu.

[smileman83]

I closed the main door while key menu was on and it did not exit the menu. The door open message went away. Think I should rekey the machine again and start over?

Bruce

[Buzz]

Something funny is going on, try lifting and lowering the main door latch a couple of times. Just lift the latch, wait a couple of seconds and lower it making sure it goes all the way down.

[smileman83]

Well played around a bit more. I rekeyed the machine. after turning on and getting the rotating color screens, the first screen comes up call attendant. when you turn the reset once it comes up with an error. Its not a ram error but it I cant remember ( I can go rekey and find out exactly-something with addresses base chip, pxl chip, etc) but you turn the reset key again and it says hold test switch for 2 seconds. It then reboots and the next message is an eprom error message, you turn the switch twice and then it initializes and goes into key chip menu. Still couldnt get the screen to calibrate using the reset key and the key chip didnt go of when I closed the door, but i hit exit key chip menu. Then the main screen comes on- Super Cherry graphics with error messages- 1) main battery low, and messages about denominations and options setup need to be done. it does allow you to calibrate the touchscreen with two turns of the reset key and it appears to do fine- takes ambient, touch the dots, open door and finished, but when you close door and turn rest key to go into the main menu, the areas that you touch are not exactly over the buttons. I cant get to the top accounting button, when i push the accounting button the sound button below comes on, so its still off.

But since I was able to calibrate the screen, I tried to rekey again to get back to set things and no difference. I still cannot use the lower portion of the right screen where the exit button is. I did take off the frame of the touchscreen panel to see if there was any thing broken, but other thanexposing the touchscreen, there are no wires. There is a ribbon cable that enters the metal frame of the monitor. Should I be opening and checking that?

Thats as far as I have gotten.

[Buzz]

Well damn !!  Without my reading this whole thread again, I think you said you centered the image on the monitor.If you didn't there are some buttons on the very top of the monitor to do this. ( if you have short fat fingers good luck ) Ceronix does make a remote control to do this adjustment, it's about 15 bucks.

I don't have a clue why this damn thing won't leave Key Menu when you close the door unless your also having door optic problems. But you said door open message goes away when you close the door. 

I think if you get the picture centered, and recalibrate it will work.

[smileman83]

It centered and calibrated, but the touchscreen is not responding. I am going to try an extra touch controller board to see if something is amiss, but my theory is the touch controller i bad. Is there a way to do all key menu stuff with the deck buttons? They dont light except in certain times with the menu system and dont respond when pushed and in the key menu

[Buzz]

If you calibrated the touch screen, you had to touch the dots, when you touched a dot it changed to a different dot. If all that is true then the touch screen is working.

No I don't know of a way to program the machine using the buttons, but then I've never tried.  How about using your old CRT ? At least that could get the machine working.

[Jimise]

If I read his posts correctly, He says he has a low battery message.
Doesn't he need to get that fixed first before his machine will work?

[smileman83]

Okay guys. I still had the old CRT and I put it in and the touchscreen works and allows configuration, so I think we can say the issue is with the LCD's touchscreen. Its a Ceronix so maybe Ill give them a call and see what to do. Once I did that, I rebooted and I still get a Config error screen which I can bypass with the reset key and then it asks to push the reset button for 2 secs. Then it goes to Call attendant and when you open the door it says pending tilts, main battery low, Options verification required. Interestingly if I remember right on the config error screen it states something about verifying options as well before its cleared with the reset key.

Ill assume these are related- is it a bad chipset? or is it related to the low battery and this is the root of this issue. I feel we are getting close though.

Thanks for everyone's help

[smileman83]

Okay, finally soldered new battery and placed in old CRT and rekeyed machine and bingo- we are up and running. The LCD touchscreen is bad. Called Ceronix and its under warranty so we can get that corrected as well.

Thanks to everyone for helping me troubleshoot. I did install a battery holder so as not to have to resolder again and I think I will do that on all my machines. Now that I have a a brand new top panel my old clear button lenses look terrible. Can these be purchased without having to buy new buttons?