Just wondering who is to blame for GM bankruptcy?

[Randy0777]

Just wondering for comments 

[a69mopar]

speculators.  GM has always relied on financing to sell cars.  Their execs also had a hand in this since they were only looking at the short term profit instead of the long term sustainable operations.  GM has been using the Edward Demming method of manufacturing that Toyota uses and their quality is at the top.  What the big 3 auto makers did was concentrate on the products that they got the most profit from which was usually large platform cars and trucks, this left the market open at the entry level for the competition to grab, what they didn't realize was the competition would introduce new products into the segments that the big 3 concentrated on.  This let first time car buyers sample the offshore or implant vehicles and when they could afford more expensive cars, they stayed loyal to the brand.  I could go on and on, but that's enough.

Have a great night,
Wayne

[uniman]

Just wondering for comments 

The global economy, i.e. China!!!

Pension plans. Company's who have been in the US less than 30 years have no one on a pension.
Unions that got out of control. "Oh, you want that floor swept?" "You need a to call in a $30.00 an hour floor engineer on overtime, can't none of us do that, violates the contract." ( Now I am pro-union and I was a steward for several years, but what I've heard goes on in the car factories blows me away!)
Environmental and OSHA laws that other countries do not have.
And for GM it is/was a combination of the above. The labor cost of producing each vehicle is so prohibitive that they could only profit from large, pricey vehicles. That pushed them into a narrow market. Along comes $4.00 a gallon gas and now everybody is hesitant to purchase those large gas guzzling vehicles.
Goodby narrow market.

IMO

[Joeylc]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/tUJGIxlTlwo&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/tUJGIxlTlwo&rel=0</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/AXVDrKECXdk&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/AXVDrKECXdk&rel=0</a>

[uniman]

Oh Joey, I don't whether to    or 


In my previous post I forgot health care costs!!!!  How could I forget that!

[Randy0777]

LOL,two of my favorite's Wayne and Jim  
Let me start by saying I allways loved working on cars. My first "real" job as a "mechanic" was when i was 19,at one of the largest dealers in my state. I worked used car dept.,which I serviced all the trade ins. I hade to do the state inspection,State emission test,and a 27 point saftey check. (anyone from Md knows this covers bumber to bumber). The GM dealer sent me to every school that you could think of...why,not a clue. If you brought your GM in for service,you would not see me . They were three people on "my team"..we were "used cars" . So one day I could be working on a Nissan,Toyota,or a Chevette   . After all the schooling we were considerd technicians (computers) . Between the three of us we had  work orders' from the used car lot of the cars needing done...we picked the ones we wanted to do  . Oh,and if you bought one of the used cars and it needed serice it would come back to one of us. Anyway,Mon. and Fri we would ALLWAYS grab a Nissan or Toyota   cause we knew it would be a easy day .

Now,jump ahead a few years  ....
The last 15 yrs I've worked for GM on a assembly line building cars. I worked in Baltimore building the Astro and Safari van. That plant closed so I transferred to Del. building the Sky and Solistice(Dawoo for export). In Del. I was a "team leader" ...which was another way of saying I watched over my team (6 people) and made sure they followed ISO,SOP,ERGO,ETC,(  ) .
I've done this in the bodyshop...and luckly,I was the last person to check the job before it went to paint. if I seen a defect I would send it to repair(which was me  LOL ).  Now,jump ahead a few months and the shift I was on was cut due to lack of sales. Now I'm a team leader in what they call "general assembly". This is where NUMBERS COUNT.  Baltimore we had to "ship" 420 jobs a 8 hour shift,Del was a low production plant,we had to ship 52 jobs a 8 hour shift.     Now,here we go In Baltimore jobs were messed up(we could not stop the line) and i would tell mangement of the problem they would say "ship it",we will fix it later. In Del. we had the ANDON system where an assembler would pull it and the line would stop...and a team leader would respond....

[Randy0777]

Ok,as I was typing this I seen two replies..I reply after I finish.
If it could not be fixed soon,Mangement would say ship it. They need the numbers for the superintendent of that dept....ok,going to read the new post

[a69mopar]

You forgot to mention your problem solving boards.  Did you have daily team meetings?

Thanks,
Wayne

[Randy0777]

You forgot to mention your problem solving boards.  Did you have daily team meetings?

Thanks,
Wayne

LOL,ok Wayne,been there done that
I caught s*it from my team members and mangement. Yes,I had to go to more meetings . When we were shut down for lack of sales I had to go to meetings. My main concern was my team,than building a well built "job"... Yes,I had to hold a "team meeting" once aweek to inform my team of the propaganda MGT was saying!!!... And yes,I filled out all the boards daily

[Randy0777]

....Anyway,we do not design them. A assembly plant puts all the pieces together. We DO NOT fabricat ONE PIECE,we just put the puzzle together. Now,if the "supplier" is off a Mill.,...ok,this is beating a dead horse 

[Randy0777]

LOl,thanks Joeylc ...Thats four min's that I'l lnever get back(could of been more,but I cancelled it  )

[jdkmunch]

How could GM possibly succeed with the UAW strapped around their neck?  Imagine having to run a company where you must pay your employees DOUBLE what foreign countries are paying as well as benefits for all employees past. 


I blame the failure on the UAW's GREED -  let them get shares of a bankrupt worthless company.

[a69mopar]

Wow, that's harsh.  Do you honestly think the company would be in better shape if the wages were half, the execs would have just taken larger bonuses, their jets would have been more lavish and less money would be spread in the communities that the workers who build the cars live in.  as for the retirees, that gave 30 - 45 years to a company, I would expect a pension also if I were them.  I guess the anti union people would have all workers in industry making minimum wage and the execs and speculators reaping all of the profits, would this really help GM or the economy. 

W

[brichter]

I saw an article in the paper (pretty sure tt was an AP article) that here in America the only difference between UAW workers wages and benefits and non-union shops like Toyota and Honda's worlers wages and benefits was the pension package. It stated the non-union shops have employer-matched 401ks instead of employer-funded pensions.

Just as Social Security is having solvency problems due to the baby boomer retirement spike, so are the UAW shops. I'm pretty sure that's one of the big causes of the airline industry's issues also.

[jdkmunch]

Wow, that's harsh.  Do you honestly think the company would be in better shape if the wages were half, the execs would have just taken larger bonuses, their jets would have been more lavish and less money would be spread in the communities that the workers who build the cars live in.  as for the retirees, that gave 30 - 45 years to a company, I would expect a pension also if I were them.  I guess the anti union people would have all workers in industry making minimum wage and the execs and speculators reaping all of the profits, would this really help GM or the economy. 

W

I do... when times are tough you need to be able to lay people off and reduce wages. 

When things are tough at home you reduce spending ... cut things here and there (not the slots of course).. GM has had it's hands tied for years.   Now after being bankrupt President Osama is going to mandate all cars get a mystical 42MPG.   Such a joke.   

[jdkmunch]

I saw an article in the paper (pretty sure tt was an AP article) that here in America the only difference between UAW workers wages and benefits and non-union shops like Toyota and Honda's worlers wages and benefits was the pension package. It stated the non-union shops have employer-matched 401ks instead of employer-funded pensions.

Just as Social Security is having solvency problems due to the baby boomer retirement spike, so are the UAW shops. I'm pretty sure that's one of the big causes of the airline industry's issues also.

Agreed

[a69mopar]

Wow, that's harsh.  Do you honestly think the company would be in better shape if the wages were half, the execs would have just taken larger bonuses, their jets would have been more lavish and less money would be spread in the communities that the workers who build the cars live in.  as for the retirees, that gave 30 - 45 years to a company, I would expect a pension also if I were them.  I guess the anti union people would have all workers in industry making minimum wage and the execs and speculators reaping all of the profits, would this really help GM or the economy. 

W

I do... when times are tough you need to be able to lay people off and reduce wages. 

When things are tough at home you reduce spending ... cut things here and there (not the slots of course).. GM has had it's hands tied for years.   Now after being bankrupt President Osama is going to mandate all cars get a mystical 42MPG.   Such a joke.   

They do and the U.A.W. is doing their part with the concessions...

[a69mopar]

Gm has many fuel efficient products and had some great technology in the works such as direct injection (gasoline engines that are similar to diesel technology.)

W

[jdkmunch]

only on the eve of bankruptcy.  Truly sad.   I was always of the opinion if I didn't like my employer I could always leave and find another job.    The door is always open.

[jdkmunch]

Gm has many fuel efficient products and had some great technology in the works such as direct injection (gasoline engines that are similar to diesel technology.)

W

They do and as the market permits they will get better and better and better.   When gas was $4.50 a gallon people would flock to this.  Big government needs to get out of the way.

If I want to pay $$ for my gas guzzling suv then fine. I'll pay.  Don't force little tin cans on me .

[a69mopar]

only on the eve of bankruptcy.  Truly sad.   I was always of the opinion if I didn't like my employer I could always leave and find another job.    The door is always open.

that's an option everyone has including the execs.  They will be taking pay cuts now but should have years ago.

[jdkmunch]

only on the eve of bankruptcy.  Truly sad.   I was always of the opinion if I didn't like my employer I could always leave and find another job.    The door is always open.

that's an option everyone has including the execs.  They will be taking pay cuts now but should have years ago.

agreed

*** LARGE pay cuts

[brichter]

If I want to pay $$ for my gas guzzling suv then fine. I'll pay.  Don't force little tin cans on me .

I can't stress how much I agree with this.

That said, I think the point of Obama's strategy is to make sure those who want to buy little tin cans can buy them from American car makers. If Toyota vehicles are outselling those made by American mfgrs, there must be a reason. And the American mfgrs need to address that issue or go bankrupt (hmm, what exactly are we discussing here?  ).

[stayouttadabunker]

Well,
The question is "Who's to blame for GM's bankruptcy?"...

I'd have to say...GM...plain and simple...

Same thing goes for any other company that files for bankruptcy...it's their own fault...sorry

It's only wimpy cry as-es  that try to put the blame on others and can't accept their responsibilities...   

 

[jdkmunch]

Well,
The question is "Who's to blame for GM's bankruptcy?"...

I'd have to say...GM...plain and simple...

Same thing goes for any other company that files for bankruptcy...it's their own fault...sorry

It's only wimpy cry as-es  that try to put the blame on others and can't accept their responsibilities...  

 

Simple... Sweet

I like it!