Many S6000 machines rejecting many Bill Validators?

[Abe Frohman]

I have three S6000's restored to running state using nickel hoppers and nickel coin mechs.  I have removed the printers but left the Bill Validators in.  All ram cleared and running smoothly.  However, *all* of them reject the BV's.  The light goes green for about 5-10 seconds, then red.  They will not even attempt to pull in the bill.  But they *do* grind away on power cycle, door close, etc.  I also have the cash can connected correctly and I'm getting no 52's, etc.

I have a variety of known-good heads/transports that work in IGT machines too, putting those in the S6000's yields the same result.

I have triple-verified the jumper settings to be set to WBA (I think it was DIP block 2 switch 5 up, 6 down?) before the RAM clear.  I don't see anything in the soft configuraton about the BV...  I must be missing something obvious?

I heave read http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=3133.0 in which the mechanisms were missing ROMs or gears, this isn't the case here.  Any ideas?  I can't be the only one 

[a69mopar]

I have to ask what software you are running in them?  Are they eprom?  It should be ID003 for Bally.  What BVs are you using?  wbaxx?  With all of the machines doing the same you likely have the wrong software for them.

Thanks,
Wayne

[a69mopar]

what position are the transport dip switches in?  perhaps someone left them in test mode.  all should be up or on.

[Abe Frohman]

They're all the ones I got with them when they were "parts complete" from the warehouse, so I wouldn't think they would all be wildly off spec.  They're a mix of WBA 11's, 12's, 13's and most have the DIP's all up.  They work fine in the IGT's if I flip-flop them.  And the validator spins up and grinds at the appropriate times based on door closures etc, they just won't even attempt a bill feed even before the green arrows go red-X.

I guess it's possible that I got a truckload of machines all with BV's that don't jive, but my IGT BV's were mostly go.  Seems like there's something else afoot.

I'll check more details when I get home...

[a69mopar]

Bally uses ID003 software, the IGT software won't work in a Bally machine.  Are you changing the eproms when you put them in a Bally machine?

W

[Abe Frohman]

No, I was hoping to just see it grab a bill.  I only tried IGT units after I ran out of Bally units.  I guess it must be a software issue, but I got enough of the 6000's with the BV's matched up with them that I thought I couldn't possibly get wrong versions, bad units, etc...  I'll have to check more specifically when I get back to the machines.

[Abe Frohman]

Incorporating the lesson I just learned from Wayne, and the pictures below, I believe what happened is I got a boatload of the wrong BV's and only a couple correct ones, but with no EPROMs.

I have a stack of what I'm going to call "IGT version" that don't seem to have removable DIMMs and then these three others that have empty DIMM sockets.  ONE of these had an EPROM in it, I bet that's where the software goes.  Rat turds.

The ones without the PROM are WBA-12-SS and the ones with the empty sockets are WBA-23-SS.

So I shoved a bunch of machines around and dug until I looked at every BV.  The *last* one was a WBA-13-SS which had an EPROM:

 WBA-13-SS  ID 003 USA   V 3.01 - 20i  (4353)  (c) JCM American Corp

...and it WORKED!  So, I guess I got a bunch of the wrong transports, and some missing EPROMs.  No?

Will this WBA-13-SS EPROM work in 12's, 11's, etc?

Am I correct in assuming all these "no-EPROM" transports are IGT-only?  Some have stickers saying IGT specifically, some don't but they say IDO 22-023 V2.07.03  or something like USA 501-23-118, etc...

[CaptainHappy]

The BV's that are missing the EPROMS are the "FLASH" versions that require a special programmer to program them. The software for the Bally Machines is definately different than the IGT machines. As a matter of fact the software can vary between different models of the same manufacturers machines. I have found that you cannot always trust the stickers on the BV's. Most of the time if I want to know for sure I have to hook the BV up to my programmer and read the software that is in it to see what it really is. I would expect that for a nominal fee some of our vendors could possibly reprogram them for you.

CaptainHappy

[Abe Frohman]

*Blech*  you mean the ones that have no socket at all are the flash ones?  That would explain the open connection port I guess.  So some of these don't-have-a-socket versions (might) be currently programmed for IGT, Bally or other, and I might not know how to tell?

I think I should try a switcheroo back where I got them first if that's the case.

[a69mopar]

no sockets = flash, your id003 eprom (Bally) will work in the wba23 also, asuming the heasd is a wba 10/11/12/13.  For simplicity I'll say there are two series of heads wba1x (x = 0,1,2 or 3) and wba2x (x= 0,1,2,3 or 4) the wba1x head is for USA, the wba2x is for Canada and other countries.  The transports are sort of opposite, for transports a wba10 is the same as a wba20, a wba11 is the same as a wba21, a wba12 is the same as a wba22, a wba13 is the same as a wba23. Are you seeing it.  as for flash transports (wba10,12,20,22) they can be flashed for any type of machine that the software is available for, this requires a download tool that is expensive.  The transports with eprom sockets take the appropriate eprom for the machine you are installing it in.  If you have a wba23 head, you may want to list it on ebay or in the classifieds here as they are worth more than a U.S. head.

Thanks,
Wayne

[a69mopar]

I should mention that software for a wba10/11 will not work in a wba12/13, the wba10 or 11 has 1 meg of memory and take bills in one direction (usually), where a wba12 or 13 have 4 megs of memory and take bills all ways.  On an eprom version the eprom is the memory.

Thanks,
Wayne

[Abe Frohman]

Have you been K+'ed today?  There.  Thanks for being so cool in sharing information.

[Abe Frohman]

Follow-up:  Similarly, I have a bunch of X-Mark Xeptor coin mechs.  They too are not working, and they all have empty DIMM sockets.  Are these missing the software too?  Or should they work with no DIMM installed?  (Probably not, cuz these are the ones with some smart-assed salute to their competitors silkscreened on the boards?)

[a69mopar]

The x-10 needs that chip to work, I know of a casino that takes them out and would guess that's where yours came from...

Thanks,
Wayne

[Abe Frohman]

Wow man, this casino seems to have virtually *sabotaged* these machines on the way out.  I don't know to what extent they swap bad parts in before these machines leave, bit I mean wiring harnesses unecessarily cut, reels unplugged, lots of molex type connectors cracked, etc...  I understand certain security requirements such as wiping RAM and scrambling data much like a used hard drive for a computer, but these things seem to have been essentially vandalized!

It's been a good learning experience though, I just hope I don't end up in the red on these things.

[a69mopar]

Parts complete doesn't mean all parts are good, I sometimes get the cherries and other times get the pits.  I have a lot of printers that they took out the 40 pin cable since they had problems.  I have repaired some, but have to get cables.  They swap out parts all the time.  It is just the nature of the business.  It's not like you paid $900 each for them, so I'm sure you won't end up in the red. Patience will carry you through the tough spots.

You can likely get the chip from IDX if you want, but they are probably locked also which would mean you'll have to send them to be unlocked.  In the U.S. it would likely be easier to get comparitors.  In Canada, the variation in the quarters over the years makes it hard for a comparitor to accept them all, so I use the x-10 acceptors in all my machines.  I am running out of the pp16 personality plugs though and will post when I need more.

Thanks,
Wayne

[Abe Frohman]

I guess it matters whether you call an EPROM a part?  I don't mind taking my chances with the percentage of failed parts, but when they're not even there you pretty much guarantee a 100% failure...  But I did OK on the purchase, and eventually I'll build up a little bit of a library of parts to deal with such issues.  My bewilderment is directed more towards the handling by the casino as the machines are leaving.  Obviously, anyone who had money in the machines after the liquidation wouldn't treat them this way.

I'm more likely to get in the red on the machines while learning expensive lessons.  I inspected a Cigar $1 machine and disconnected anything unecessary before first power-up, I still smoked something (haha - cigar - very funny) when I hit the switch.  Almost did it again when I didn't know what that personality plug was and left it hanging - touched it to the door for a little spark but no casualty.  This is all the price of the education.  I must say that participation and voluntary sharing of information has surely saved me from a couple potentially expensive and irritating errors; I will translate those savings into a bandwidth donation and perhaps some advertising, or perhaps I'll send a couple bottles of wine for the party in July!