Bally electromechanical wont accept coins anymore.

[jack78]

Hi, over time my Bally EM 3 reel slot machine which accepts up to 5 coins (to play 1 - 5 lines) has gradually got to the point where it no longer registers any coins to begin game play. When the mains power is switched on everything lights up as usual  but when coins are fed into the machine coin slot they drop through into the payout hopper, (not the coin return slot) and not lighting up the coin accepted light/s. ( also handle won't release )
I do notice a hum or buzz coming from one relay in the very upper cabinet as shown in the picture below (see arrow) .
I'm not sure if this is at all related to the problem but I have included the pictures to show everyone the type of machine it is. ( 873 I think?)
Any ideas or suggestions on what I should look for or possibly test with a meter would be most appreciated. Thanks!
 

[jack78]

Follow Up.
I manually tapped the micro coin switch located in the door today while holding the switch wire in the full open position. I think I heard another relay also in the door 'click'. I wriggled the lever connected to the plastic damper cylinder and another relay for the main lever actuator clicked and game play was enabled. Not sure what any of this means but it is up and running again. ( for now )
Can anyone tell me if the coin micro switch should make a click sound when it is manually activated. A similar micro switch on the outside of the coin payout hopper makes a click sound when manually put through it's travel should the micro coin door switch be the same?
Another problem this machine has and this has been ongoing for years is how do I calibrate the coin mechanism. It will drop a lot of coins in the hopper or return chute into the pay hopper without registering them. If you open the door and flick the micro coin switch with your finger it usually works every time. Thanks!

[StatFreak]

Since you mentioned that wiggling the handle mech of which the "plastic damper cylinder" is a part helped to solve your problem, I would suggest reading the following thread for general cleaning help as this is a very common problem with the EMs.
http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=3775.msg32007#msg32007

Yes, the micro-switch should click when it is tripped although the sound from the switch itself is very quiet. You are probably hearing the line unit step-up relay and other relays in the machine when you do this with the power on. You indicated that the coins go into the hopper but are not registering and that the micro-switch works every time. That leads me to think that the problem might be just that the wire on the micro-switch needs adjustment, unless parts are missing that would allow the coin to drop into the hopper without tripping the micro-switch. Could you post pictures of the coin mech and the inside of the door?

[Neonkiss]

What demon coins are you using in this machine?
If it's small coin, Dime or nickel, you could be missing the shim that centers the drop coin to hit the micro switch wire correctly.

I had this problem with another machine where after the coin passes and exits the acceptor, it drops down past where the wire for the micro switch is. Without the shim the slot is wide enough to where the coin can completely miss the trip wire.
I'll check my book and see if I can find a  illustrated parts breakdown of this area.

[Neonkiss]

Here is a break down of those parts.
I suspect that you may be missing item #76

[jack78]

Thank you both for your input & for directing me to the above link, this is most likely my biggest problem. I will get around to cleaning these contacts as described in that thread sometime over the next few days. I'll let you know what the results are. I have included a picture of the coin mechanism and will have a closer look at the trip wire and diagram you have posted above. The machine is supposed to accept 10 cent Australian coins.
In the mean time, if you happen to notice any thing odd with the coin mechanism I would again be grateful for your opinions.
BTW- I noticed the 'click' in the coin micro switch when the power was turned off to the machine. So I presume it's functioning as it should and this may point to the other dirty contacts I have yet to clean. Thanks again.

[Neonkiss]

Another problem this machine has and this has been ongoing for years is how do I calibrate the coin mechanism. It will drop a lot of coins in the hopper or return chute into the pay hopper without registering them. If you open the door and flick the micro coin switch with your finger it usually works every time. Thanks!

If the switch is operating properly when you manually flick it, then the coins are bypassing the wire. since your using a small coin demon check for the missing guide. You may also wish to switch this machine over to a nickle. The dime is very light weight and requires a special very sensitive micro switch.

[jack78]

Well I found some time to clean most contacts and wipers today and after a short test this is where I'm at.

1. Turn power on "ching" sounds normal and all lights on.
2.  Strike the coin micro switch manually with finger and a relay in the upper cabinet pulls in. However nothing on the return upstroke when the coin micro wire is released.
3. Tap the micro coin switch in the door a few times with the back of a small screw driver and hey presto the handle release solenoid is activated.
4. Now that this is achieved, repetitively striking the coin micro switch with my finger 4 more times consecutively allows the maximum play of 5 lines or what should be the equivalent of  5 coins deposited.

The machine will play from 1 game to a few games in a row before having to tap the coin micro switch again to activate the handle release etc.

I believe I have 2 problems here ( 1. electrical ) &  ( 2. the Coin acceptance mechanism which is on my to do list now that I have the diagram above.
(Thanks again)

I'm starting to think part of this electrical problem maybe a dry joint, bad earth or nearly broken wire or connector in the door behind or around the coin mechanism. I'm only guessing so feel free to make any suggestions here. I just find it weird that to excite the handle release relay I have to tap the coin switch.
Thanks Again!

 

[jack78]

(coin problem now identified)

Neonkiss thanks again for the diagram and your initial suspicion.
Part #76 you mentioned is there but it looks like part #75 is not. I believe this is the r/h coin guide which should pair up with the one on the l/h side part #72.
I trapped the coin to follow it's travel and I found I was able to add a strip of metal as shown in the photo to reduce the excessive coin clearance. 
This now gives me better than 90% coin acceptance or 1 reject out of every 10 deposits. As you can imagine with out the added strip or the correct guide the coin only partially struck the micro coin switch wire not always pushing it all the way through it's travel.

Now that problem one is solved,
I am still leaning towards the likelihood that my coin micro switch requires replacement. The need to tap it after playing half a dozen games or so to energize the handle release so that the further coins will then be registered for game play has me thinking it's faulty or on it's way out.
(or it's something completely different, please jump in with any ideas
I'm not sure if I am able to source one locally;  Is there any one who would ship a coin micro switch to Australia.
It maybe just a process of further elimination from here. Thanks again all for your help.

[Neonkiss]

If you have a voltage meter, see it you can check continuity of the switch. This could confirm it's proper operation. The switch will be marked C, NO, NC
the C is common, NO is normally open and NC is normally closed. The switch may check good with a meter and you may just have one of the connections with a cold solder joint. If so re-heat up those solder connections and see if it gets better.

Keep us posted.
Also Barry at Foxslots1 has all the parts for the Bally machines. However I don't think he ships out of the USA. But you could check with him to confirm. He has a link at the top of the page.

[Op-Bell]

The handle release is controlled through the normally closed contact on the coin switch, so the fact that it works after you tap it indicates the switch is faulty and not changing over properly. For microswitches that often means the plastic body is cracked so that the spring inside gets misaligned. If you take it out you may be able to see a crack and mend it with superglue, but I would replace the switch anyway. Foxslots can probably help you, try Barry first, but if not I have a quantity of those rotary microswitches and coin wires in the garage somewhere.

[jack78]

Hi opbell thanks for the heads up. I will be away for the next week, but I will try to order a replacement coin switch soon after I get back.
I will post back to the forum with the out come. Probably within 2 weeks. Thanks!

[jack78]

 
Thanks again OP-Bell,
I got onto Barry at Foxslots who was very helpful. The coin micro switch arrived today and after installing it I played the machine for about half an hour and it seems to be fine now. However, I do have one more problem. Since I last cleaned the contacts on the machine it lights up 2 lines on the first coin drop instead of one. The 2nd 3rd 4th coin drop are fine but 4 coins now lights 5 lines. I'm not sure what I have done to cause this but if you think you can steer me in the right direction I would be most grateful (again).
I have since managed to get hold of a service manual for the machine but am finding somethings are a little harder to comprehend than others.
Cheers!

[Op-Bell]

Sounds like the coin step-up unit in the top box is not resetting all the way. We had another thread about this recently, in the same topic area.

[jack78]

Well today I removed the coin step-up unit and cleaned the plate and contacts properly. These were particularly dirty where it is impossible to clean unless disassembled. (You can see the dirty contacts that I missed first time round while assembled (see left side of the photo)
I read the other related posts on cleaning and inspection of springs and spring tension and it all appears to be ok. ...( although I'm not ruling anything out )
Unfortunately there is still no change in the first coin drop as it still registers 2 lines as I mentioned above.
If it helps, when the coin is dropped into the slot, the downward strike upon the coin wire lights the first line, the second line lights as the coin wire returns. Is there another switch that could effect this circuit or have I just missed something in the coin setup unit. Thanks

[Op-Bell]

If it helps, when the coin is dropped into the slot, the downward strike upon the coin wire lights the first line, the second line lights as the coin wire returns.

That might be a clue. You said you changed the microswitch. Is it possible you wired it backwards - NC to NO, and vice versa, or crossed over the common (yellow) with one of the other contacts? Probably not, but that's something to check.

Following through the schematic, this is how it's supposed to work.

1. When the coin switch closes (wire down), current passes through the NO contact to the odds reset unit, which resets immediately.

2. When the coin switch opens (wire up) after the first coin, current passes through the NC contact to the handle release coil, which should click loudly.

3. A contact on the handle release coil changes over, and routes subsequent coin switch closures to the odds relay.

*** Since the handle release isn't supposed to happen until the coin switch is released, there should not be a circuit to pull in the odds relay at this time ***

4. When the coin switch closes on the second coin, the current is routed through the NO contact and the handle release contacts to the odds relay. This relay pulls in and latches itself on.

5. When the coin switch opens again, current passes through its NC contact, through a contact on the odds relay to the odds step-up coil, which advances one coin and drops out the odds relay.

So what's happening is you're getting steps 4 and 5 happening on the first coin, instead of depending on handle release step 3. Most likely the change-over contact on the handle release is changed over too soon, either because it needs adjusting, or because the handle is releasing on the first coin downstroke instead of the release.

[jack78]

With regards to the handle switch adjustment, my book only shows assembly not actual adjustment.
What I see is all the contacts appear to be closed before a coin is dropped. After the coin wire travels down and up only the lowest contacts remain closed and upper 3 are now open. Does this sound correct?
Thought I would also mention this: I also notice that after game play has completed ( say, with no winning payout) there is no final 'click' sound from inside the front cabinet door, Also the 'insert coin light' does not glow. (these two used to go hand in hand)
The wires on my coin switch are as follows.
Com = 2 x yellow
NO  =  1 x Green
NC  =   1 x  Orange
Any further thoughts appreciated.

[Op-Bell]

What I see is all the contacts appear to be closed before a coin is dropped. After the coin wire travels down and up only the lowest contacts remain closed and upper 3 are now open. Does this sound correct?

Not the way you tell it, no. There should be 4 contacts in that stack, three above the actuator and one below. The actuator is a pin on an extension of the lever that drops to allow the handle to pull - when the lever is dropped, the actuator (which is on the other side of the pivot) goes up.

When the arm is reset after a pull, the actuator is DOWN. The three contacts above should be closed, and the one at the bottom should be open. It may be hard to see that, but if it's not open, that's where all the trouble is. When the arm is released (you can do it manually by pushing the armature on the coil) the actuator goes UP, opening the three top contacts and closing the bottom one.

It's that bottom contact that feeds the coin pulses to the odds step-up unit. It's supposed to be open until after the first coin. If it's not adjusted right so that it's always closed, you'll see the problem you're getting. Pull the mech out and take a close look. If the bottom contact doesn't open, there could be several reasons. One is the actuator may be worn or broken. It's a metal pin about a half inch long with an insulating sleeve over it, swaged into the lever arm. If it's worked loose, there's the problem. If it appears to be solidly in place and the sleeve isn't broken, you have to adjust the contacts.

The first thing to check is that the contact stack is secure and the screws holding it together haven't worked loose. If they have, just tightening them will probably fix it.

The bottom contact has two metal leaves. The lower one is the moving contact, pushed down by the actuator. The upper one is the fixed contact. You adjust it by gently bending the fixed contact, by pressing up or down with a small screwdriver as close to the base as possible. Never bend the moving contact. You should adjust it so it's clear of the moving contact with the actuator down, and when the actuator goes up the moving contact rests on it fairly hard.

The insert coin light and the coin lockout (your click from inside the door) both depend on the coin relay, which is mechanically reset midway through the game after the reels start. Does the coin accepted light glow instead? But if the coin relay didn't reset, you'd be in free play forever.

[jack78]

 
Op-Bell, congratulations your input has been invaluable.
Your explanation nailed it. I may have mixed my words but when you clarified it by saying;
('When the arm is reset after a pull, the actuator is DOWN. The three contacts above should be closed, and the one at the bottom should be open')
I reinspected these contacts and made a slight adjustment to the lower contact which was closed. Adjusted it as you described (so it became open) and now the machine is back to a it's old self where 1 coin plays 1 line through to 5 coins plays 5 lines.
I must have bent that contact slightly when I cleaned the contacts last week.
The insert coin light does not light at the moment however the coin accepted light works as it should.
I'm not too concerned, just happy you were able to help me get it back into a usable state. Many thanks to all at NLG.
Best regards Jack78

[CaptainHappy]

OPBELL TO THE RESCUE AGAIN!!!  K+ again!

CaptainHappy
  admin

[Op-Bell]

OPBELL TO THE RESCUE AGAIN!!!  Hail applause Hail K+ again!

I don't deserve it. I have significant magical items in my inventory - a plus-3 Bally EM of Seeing and a plus-10 Tome of Wisdom (that is, a book of schematic diagrams)
Can't find the blushing smiley - I'll have to make do with a nerd 

[CaptainHappy]

OPBELL TO THE RESCUE AGAIN!!!  Hail applause Hail K+ again!

I don't deserve it. I have significant magical items in my inventory - a plus-3 Bally EM of Seeing and a plus-10 Tome of Wisdom (that is, a book of schematic diagrams)
Can't find the blushing smiley - I'll have to make do with a nerd 

I think the new smiley I added is better for you!

 

CH