Scrip for DBA's?

[reho33]

I live in a state where any currency in/out of a slot is illegal. I was wondering if any company made "scrip" that could represent "x" credits so that when the scrip is inserted into the DBA you could easily load up your machine with credits and still stay legal. the machine would still dispense tokens of course. The scrip would also have to be really sturdy to stand up to use and abuse. Just a thought as a lot more machines now only come with DBA's. My Double Diamond slot was manufactured in 1989 and was in Trump World's Fair casino in Atlantic City and does not have a DBA. Even the original NJ. DGE stickers are on the chips!

EDIT: I found a website that has high quality play money. The bills are of green tint but realistic. They also have plastic coins as well (I wonder if you could plastic quarters in a slot????). maybe the DBA could be trained to accept the play money.

[stayouttadabunker]

Some guys wanted to use "monopoly money" in their games.
but I think the bills were too small....
plus, you'd have to redesign the DBV chips to "see" it and recognize the bill amount...
The exact physical (size) ,metal composition properties of coins
and metal tokens is what's needed for coin comparators to work.
Plastic tokens I believe will never work in a coin mech.
...not easy conversions to perform for us everyday, home slot owners...
I'd leave that up to the JCM techicians....lol

[StatFreak]

reho33, we were discussing this very subject just a few days ago. Check out these posts.

[jay]

The machines use a coin comparitor... it uses coils to determine if the coins are of equal metallic properties.... this way even a equal weight / sized slug would not work as a replacement to a quarter. By the same TOKEN ..... you can use Pachislo tokens. A Pachislo is a Japanese slot and the tokens are just about the size of a quarter. They are both abundent and cheap.  Simply replace the coin in the coin comparitor with the Token and your machine now runs off of tokens.
Plastic would not work.

Casinos use EFT (Electronic Funds Transfer) to convert barcodes to credits. This uses a backend computer and database and the software is not available to us. THe other posts continue the alternate thoughts on this.....

[reho33]

Yes, I understood that. I already run my machine on tokens now. Just thought that I could have a handy solution if I bought a machine with a DBA I would be legally required to remove it........

[StatFreak]

Well, if the slots are in the privacy of your home, what you might be required to do and what might get done could be two different things... Let's just say that if you were to purchase such a machine, that you'd be planning on working on removing the dbv when you got around to having a chance to look into it, one of these days next summer, as soon as you...  

The cardinal rule is to NEVER let anyone gamble for real money on a machine that you own. That's the fastest way get in trouble with the law. If you use your machines, as we all do, for personal enjoyment, no one is going to bother you. It's a minor misdemeanor in most states and unless someone complains, they're not going to waste their time bashing in your door.

[jay]

Since a DBV would allow your slot to accept bills, and the only output is tokens and the tokens are non-redeemable this makes your machine no different than a pin ball machine or other arcade platform.

If anyone has any issue with this go into any amusement park where they have a redemption arcade. The better you do at the games of chance the more tickets you get and the bigger of the prize you get to claim.  This is way more gambling than what you are offering.....

When I have purchased a machine with a dbv via vi ebay the rules state that the machine must be permanently altered not to take cash. Permanent is a term that can be interpurted in a lot of ways. My thoughts are that nothing is permanent. It more or less translates into a scale of effort. If you buy a house doesn't it come with all permanent fixtures ? does this mean you can't swap out the bathtub. Not a fun job but with some effort it can be done. Water taps are considered a permaent fixture but I can swap those out in under 1/2 an hour of effort. I am no lawyer but personally If you are using it for home entertainment I would not sweat it.

I lived in PA for 6 years and the rule was that slots newer than 1940 were forbidden. The question here is what is the legal definition of a slot machine ? Paschilos (japanese slots) were openly sold by Sams club and Costco. So how does a IGT S+ or equivelent differ once it is set out to use tokens ????. In some states the machine has to be 25 years or older. This means that slots 1984 and older are legal. California says all slots are illegal. Period. So it really comes down to what defines a slot machine. Pachislos are illegal in CA. So Is it cash or the spinning reels ?

[reho33]

Oh I understand Jay. 2 Police officers saw and went in 2 states that I lived in, saw the machine and just put a s__t eating grin on their faces and left without saying a word. I never let strangers use it and only family and friends use it with the tokens only. Honestly they are after bigger fish.....like Pot O' Golds with knock-off meters in bars. But if the DA of your county got up on the wrong side of the bed that day and has a name to make for himself/herself (think Mike Nifong) well it might be free room and board for a year and that nice S+ will be crushed with inpunity!

P.S. I also got a DOJ certificate just to CMA. They issue them to individuals for in-home personal use and the are FREE (no cost).

[Op-Bell]

I want to make it a project to get home gaming scrip for BVs. I'm pretty sure I can get the BV software done, but first I need a reliable and repeatable source of paper. Again, I've done it commercially and I know printers who can print it, but I'm not a business, so if I do it I can't shift it. I have it on good authority that certain members here do have a business, though... If anyone wants to look into it seriously, let me know PM.

[edski]

I want to make it a project to get home gaming scrip for BVs. I'm pretty sure I can get the BV software done, but first I need a reliable and repeatable source of paper. Again, I've done it commercially and I know printers who can print it, but I'm not a business, so if I do it I can't shift it. I have it on good authority that certain members here do have a business, though... If anyone wants to look into it seriously, let me know PM.

NLG Bucks with pictures of....???

[reho33]

Doesn't American Banknote Corp do notes on rag paper with security? If we all pooled together we could come up with something and have them print it depending on cost?

[edski]

Doesn't American Banknote Corp do notes on rag paper with security? If we all pooled together we could come up with something and have them print it depending on cost?

I don't think we need anything that fancy, (or expensive).
Couldn't some artistic type person draw up something, create a PDF, and we could just print them at home when we need more bucks?
If the software was written to check only corners or something, we could all put are own picture in the center!

"King Edward"

[Op-Bell]

American Banknote are a security printer - they would charge an arm and a leg, probably well over $1 a piece for a minimum order of 50,000. We don't need high security for scrip money. All we need is litho printing on repeatable quality paper with a design that's easy for a BV to recognize, like a pattern of black stripes or large dots. Edski, printing at home would be hit and miss because BVs are designed to recognize the paper, not just the print on it. You'd be surprised how different papers can appear in the infra-red light that validators use. If we teach them using Office Depot paper, they'd refuse Office Max.

[edski]

American Banknote are a security printer - they would charge an arm and a leg, probably well over $1 a piece for a minimum order of 50,000. We don't need high security for scrip money. All we need is litho printing on repeatable quality paper with a design that's easy for a BV to recognize, like a pattern of black stripes or large dots. Edski, printing at home would be hit and miss because BVs are designed to recognize the paper, not just the print on it. You'd be surprised how different papers can appear in the infra-red light that validators use. If we teach them using Office Depot paper, they'd refuse Office Max.

So as long as we had litho printing on repeatable quality paper, portions of the bill could be left to our own design, and we could run these thru our own printers, and put whatever we want on them?

[Op-Bell]

So as long as we had litho printing on repeatable quality paper, portions of the bill could be left to our own design, and we could run these thru our own printers, and put whatever we want on them?

As long as the BV software was designed right. It could look for certain features that are always present to identify the denomination, and ignore the rest of the printing. But it might be necessary to restrict the own-print to certain areas.

[StatFreak]

...
You'd be surprised how different papers can appear in the infra-red light that validators use. If we teach them using Office Depot paper, they'd refuse Office Max.

The simple solution would be to use a nationally available paper from a stable source, like Epson or HP, for example, with a specific weight and brightness (and hence, a uniform chemical makeup and IR signature), so that everyone who wanted to use these script bills could buy the paper and print their own, confident that the paper would work with the software. I'd lean towards using paper made for laser printers rather than ink jet specific paper, but that's just my opinion.

[a69mopar]

Hey guys (by that I mean guys and girls), if you pull this off, I'll be throwing a celebration party, as I love the idea.  I was thinking of bills with stripes of various widths like a bar code at each end to determine value, and a space in the middle for personalization (gtaslots, for amusement only etc.).  I would be happy(ecstatic) with 1 bill at 100 NLG bucks value, so people could add credits without using real money.  Security lefel of software wouldn't have to be high, since it's for amusement only.  I would like this to be for the wba 12/13 both ID003 and ID024 of course.  This is a big wish list, and I thank all for considering this great idea.

    a round of K+ to all    Stat, I'll have to do yours after 12 hours, since I already hit you today.

Thanks,
Wayne

[jay]

It seems to me that the industry already supports us to some degree here.
TITO blanks already appear to be a proven format for both in and out and will likely continue to be available for sometime.

Ideally I would like to be able to goto a printer and have them simply print up Jay Bucks to my specifications but if we used the basics of a TITO card then we have a supported format. So regardless if I buy the 500blank pack from Happ and use them in my printer or get some printed we would be able to provide a sample of the stock to our local guy.

Since I have an S+ that does not easily ticket out this does not apply to me but I am sure that the others who ticket out would appreciate the ability to use their tickets as an input. I am not sure how the output coding works or if its re-useable or not. My thoughts are the casino would use some kind of security environment to make it casino specific.

I also strongly believe in the KISS principal ...... Keep it Simple (stupid).

[Neonkiss]

Correct me if I'm wrong, But doesn't Ticket out print a bar code equal to the dollar value printed on the ticket?

If were re-writing software, cant you just add the availability to read that bar code dollar value and convert it to credits without any validation process. 

[a69mopar]

I thought the bar code just kept the reference number that gets validated with the server which holds the value.  seting up a thermal ticket printer to print from a PC would be interesting though....  Repeatable also.

Thanks,
W

[stayouttadabunker]

I will make a good monetary donation to those that come up with some type
of converted software that will read the TITO barcodes as mentioned by Jay and Neonkiss...
If you guys need some money to try to get this endeavour off on the right foot contact me please...
I'm sure this research and development of making a DBV "read" the ticket printers' barcodes
will be just what the slot homeowners have had their fingers crossed for for years!
It will cost a little bit for parts and stuff...maybe we could all chip in on this project?
As a combined effort from our members, this would be fantastic to pull off!

[Neonkiss]

I'll bet Dollars to donuts (If that's the correct saying)    to
If you scan the bar code of the Ticket out using a hand held bar code scanner. It will read the dollar value.

[stayouttadabunker]

I'll bet Dollars to donuts (If that's the correct saying)    to
If you scan the bar code of the Ticket out using a hand held bar code scanner. It will read the dollar value.

Hey! Does anyone have one?
Maybe I'll take one of my TITO tickets from the S2000 and bring it up to Walmart's....lol
No seriously though, it would be neat of someone could try this for us and post your results!!

[dpalmi]

Deja vu!

I've already done it and posted my findings about a year ago.  Check out this thread...

http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=1009.msg21846#msg21846

Just a quick review - the bardcode is the validation # on the ticket.  So for the ticket below, the barcode equals "000000000098211498" - no dollar amounts....sorry!

Dan #2

[edski]

OK then!

How much interest do we have in this?
I think lots!

How many denominations do we need?
I'd be happy with just a $100 note.

I think it would be nifty if potions of the bill were left blank, and we could each run them thru our own printers to personalize them.

Anybody good a graphic design?
We should come up with something very unique.

How many BV types do we need to support? 12/13, 145/200, others?

Do we need one side or both?

What color?

Let's get some thoughts together and get this rolling!!!

Ed