coin in timeout and other probs help..please

[r5g]

ok i got this 1990 pe with multi games, i have had these before and have another one working which helps
here is the deal with it so far any help or idea's appreciated
1. i got it with out knowing history of it
2. it showed eeprom data bad, thought that would be easy fix
3. after posting about this i finally got the idea it was the small pcb behind/under the motherboard that needs replacing
4. i had onther one of those from near same yr game, put it in, eeprom ddata is now cleared up
5. now it shows coin in time out, with other misc probs also
6. it played a few games oddly enough, but some buttons were intermittent, and the coin acctr worked a few times
7. along the way i noticed that the previous owner pulled some wires from cash out, and may have pulled some from ground, and bet one, and i noticed the previous owner may have installed some wires back incorrectly, the wires are all now in correct spots but power was applied when some may have been wrong like lights wire to NO or NC ect
8. what i have now is a game which says coin in timeout, does not play, and in self test, sw test, play 5, cash out, and bet one do not work,
i have checked the wire harness, its ok, checked continuity of wire to connector, its ok, and to make sure my main pcb is good i put it in my known working game and everything works, sw, and all
9. i also have some of the electronic coin eye assy, , i just swapped one and it is still doing the same thing
any idea's ? thanx

[jay]

Since you have another swap MPUs. This will ensure that the COIN-IN Timeout is related to the COIN MECH and/or Optics and not the MPU board.

I am going to assume if you cleared the BAD EPROM DATA that the you have already tried scolling through the various menus back to the start screen just as a reset ?
Perhaps try holding the SELF TEST BUTTON for 3 seconds until it PINGS

My suspicion is that either the coin mech is bad or the coin optics - I lean towards the optics vs the mech. Again try swapping them one at a time.

[knagl]

3. after posting about this i finally got the idea it was the small pcb behind/under the motherboard that needs replacing

To be clear, the board you are talking about IS the motherboard (the fixed board that is mounted inside the machine and that is typically not removed).  The removable board that sits in a tray is called the MPU board.  It's an important distinction to make when you're working on a machine.

8. what i have now is a game which says coin in timeout, does not play, and in self test, sw test, play 5, cash out, and bet one do not work,
i have checked the wire harness, its ok, checked continuity of wire to connector, its ok, and to make sure my main pcb is good i put it in my known working game and everything works, sw, and all

Are you saying that in the self test screen that the test button isn't working?  If you can access the self test screens with the button, then it is working.

I have a machine I'm just getting started working on that the Cash Out, Bet 1, and Bet Max (Bet 5) buttons are not working, too.  Those three buttons are wired in series, so if there's a problem with even one of them, all three will not work.  Make sure that the wires are connected to the correct positions on the switches, and that the switches are good.  For troubleshooting you may want to even try disconnecting all of them and wire them in one at a time, making sure that you can get them to work in the self test screen.

If there's a wiring issue (such as wires not connected where they should, or a break in the wires), that could lead to your issues of the three buttons not working and also the coin-in timeout.  On my bartop drop-in unit, if I remove the coin-in assembly or power the machine on with it not in place, I get a coin-in timeout.  As such, I would assume that if there's a wiring issue (ie. wires not connected correctly), you would also get that error.

[r5g]

the test button is working,
added notes, in self test the coin input for a,b c, sensors shows after it 1,1,0   ( 0 ) for the C, and on the working game i noticed it was 1,1,1,
i changed the coin senser and still get 110, maybe this is why i have coin in time out? and maybe? related to the non working sw input of bet 1, cash out, bet 5 ?  maybe i have a bad /open ground in the harness?
does anyone know which order those series sw inputs are in relation to where the connections go to first, from the  harness connector ?

[knagl]

My working game is 111 as well for the optics in the self test.  The stuck 0 for the "C" optic would cause a coin-in timeout.  The machine is seeing a coin "stuck" there (or suspecting that someone is trying to string a coin in and out to get credits).

As to what the cause is, I'm afraid I won't be too much help.  It could be related to the three buttons that aren't working, or it could be an unrelated issue.  I'll let you know if I figure anything out with my buttons when I get a chance to work on them.

[Jim]

yes I do   first the switch problem ; you get a ground going to the C on the deal draw switch ( yellow/green) a gray/ orange from the NC to the C of the bet max switch, a gray/red from its NC to the C of the bet 1 switch,a gray/brown  from the NC to the C on the cash out switch, a gray from its NC to the common of the change switch and a yellow/ blue back to the harness. you should be able to put a meter on the C of the DEAL/DRAW  and read continuity to the C on the CHANGE SWITCH.

A coin-in timeout means the optic sensors blocked for over 100 msec.   there are two parts to the coin in assembly, 1= the coin comp. CC-16 , and 2, the ABC optic boards directly beneath the coin comp.  Is this the unit you changed over to the other machine?  If it was, and the unit reads good in the other machine then you have a wiring problem or???  If you suspect the optics as being bad ,I have seen dust and dirt block the sensor, you could disassemble it and clean it.
If not, and problem still exists  unplug the 10 pin plug at the optics, measure pins 1,3,4, for around 8vdc. and  Vb at pin 8, use ground lead on chassis. If the voltage is good, then replace the optics, if it is missing then check harness and plugs.  Pin 4 is the C optic.  with the test screen on the monitor, you can remove the cc-16 and place a piece of cardboard (size of a popcycle stick) down between the black coin encoder and the good optics should change from 1 to a 0. B optic should change when you press the tiny white button.

Hope this helps                JIM

[r5g]

ok will check all that,
also i noticed that one of the games has cc-16
and the other has cc 160 marked 24vdc  are these different?

[knagl]

I identified the issue with my Cashout, Bet 1, and Bet 5 (Max) buttons -- perhaps this will help you as well.

First of all, if your Deal/Draw button is working, that's great news.  That button is the first in the following series (in this order):

Deal/Draw
Bet 5 (Max)
Bet 1
Cashout
Change

In a working series, if you unplug the NC or C on one of the buttons, the rest of the buttons in that series (in order) won't work.

For example, the five hold buttons are in series from left to right.  If you unplug the NC wire leaving the second button, the third, fourth, and fifth hold buttons will stop working.

What does that mean for you?  For me, my bartop machine that I just picked up was full of goo -- pop/coffee/alcohol spills in the buttons and everywhere else.  The crimp-on connector for the "C" wire for my Bet Max button was really caked with sticky residue, and as such was not making contact with the switch blades.  As such, that button and the buttons after it (bet 1, cashout, and change (if I had one)) wouldn't work.

Once I got the connector un-gunked, it and the rest of the buttons started working.  Since your deal/draw button IS working and the Bet Max (play 5) ISN'T working, the problem is at that button.  The cherry switch could be bad, or it could be wiring.  Unplug the three wires from the switch and try the following: with the machine on the self-test input screen, jump the gray/orange wire with the yellow/brown wire.  Do you now get a 1 for the bet max button?  If so, the problem is in your switch or in the connection to the switch (like my gunky residue).  If not, you may have a broken wire.

You can also try jumping the Gray/Orange wire with the Gray/Red wire.  Once you've done that, see if the Bet 1 button works.

Good luck.

[r5g]

thanx for the help and idea's
my game is mostly working now, i got the time out coin fixed as i finally noticed that 2 wires were hanging by a thread or just the wire insulation on the block connector, recrimped those and the coin accr fired right up correctly.
i still have intermittent or non working of the buttons mentioned, but im sure i can find the probs now