1973 Gottlieb's "High Hand". Not working

[Jim]

not 100% sure which wires have what voltage, but you get the overall picture, if its 25vac versus 50vac  either or  its there or its not.   Bally used two voltages in there EM series, blue=6vac, orange= 50vac, 

Hope you find the problem

Jim

[mkd3b]

I have a couple of pins from 1976 if you need me to check some things from a working pin  or check some voltage let me know  I also have the schematics which I would imagine should show the voltage s for the transformer  I can dig them out if you want me to.  Art D

[Op-Bell]

I have a Gottlieb "Royal Guard" EM, about the same age, and I have the schematics. It's 25V AC. In the primary circuit are a 5 amp slo-blo fuse, the toggle on/off switch and a bounce switch. Since you can get the lights on, there's not likely to be a problem there.

The three fuses near the door are all 10 amp, one for the playfield 6V, one for the backbox 6V and one for the 25V.

There's a 3 contact relay called the "30V HOLD RELAY". This is off after power up and gets pulled in by the 'S' relay when you drop a coin or press the replay button, after which it holds itself in. Nothing runs without that relay as it cuts off 25V to the whole machine. Either this relay, or the S relay, is most likely the problem - maybe a contact has gone out of alignment or got dirty, or broken. The important contacts (one on the S relay, one on the 30V-HOLD relay) have a red-green wire one side and a red wire the other.

[mkd3b]

Boy I need to get some paper and start to print all this stuff ..  What a wealth of Information  Im sure I ll need it too someday.   Great site  Greater People 

[Op-Bell]

Here's its entry at the Internet Pinball Machine Database

You can get a schematic and spare parts from Marco Specialities and other places.

[cfh]

the problem is NOT the transformer or the power source.
trust me, you're barking up the wrong tree. i've been
fixing EMs for 20 years and i have *never* had to replace
a transformer.

most people don't know how to measure AC voltage
in a pingame. they think there's "ground" and they
try and use that as a reference.

but if you're curious it takes 120 volts AC from the
wall and steps down to 25 vac for the solenoids and
6 vac for the lights. there is also a 'high tap' lug so
you can have 28vac in the situation of a low line
voltage (common back in the 1970s.)

but again, that won't be the problem...
I have the schematic if you think it will really
help you. but i suggest you work through
the document at
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index1.htm

[Op-Bell]

i suggest you work through the document at http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index1.htm

What an incredibly useful and helpful link! Good job Clay.

[KirkLasVegas]

I still say this is a complete loss of the voltage to run the relays/motors.
It has to be either the 25 volt fuse,fuse holder or a broken wire on the 25 volt source.
The "Hold Relay" does shut off a lot of the power in the cabinet, however it DOES NOT kill the power to the score motor. Gottliebs were famous for
the motor refusing to stop running when the machine was in trouble.
Circuits that stay "Hot"
Coin relay
Credit relay
Tilt Relay
Score motor relay
Score motor thru the off-normal contacts on the switch stack
If none of these respond to being poked by your finger, the 25 or 50 volt circuit is dead.
I STILL think it's the fuseholder.....


Kirk

[Randy0777]

Clay,I glanced over your guide before I made my first post. Lastnite,I READ your guide..both links  . And I will be setting to free play ,as soon as I get the 26 credits off   . Need to run to the store and I'll be playing with it soon. Thanks for all the suggestions...And I will be checking them out

[Randy0777]

Here's its entry at the Internet Pinball Machine Database

You can get a schematic and spare parts from Marco Specialities and other places.

Thanks fot the links. I was there before when I was working on my X's & O's ,but forgot about it.

[KirkLasVegas]

Here's its entry at the Internet Pinball Machine Database

You can get a schematic and spare parts from Marco Specialities and other places.

Thanks fot the links. I was there before when I was working on my X's & O's ,but forgot about it.

ANy signs of life or findings yet Randy?

[Randy0777]

On the transformer i get 29.6 V from center to red and .01 V from center to blk/white tracer .Checked ohm on the fuse holders and all were good...
When I push the hold relay switch in that is when the playfield lights up

[Randy0777]

Just checking some things and in the last picture I posted you can see the contact right behind the three fuses. When I lifted that up I heard the door clicking ,and it was the coin chute engaging Anyway,if i hold that contact up and hit the play button the game comes on and I can play  . But,I can only play the ball if I get it out and when I lose that ball it will not pop back out.

[Randy0777]

Ok,just tried it again. This time the score reset to 600 and the score wheel just keeps spinning and the game will not play,but lights up

[Op-Bell]

That's a drop switch. It should be normally closed (contacts touching), and open briefly by the inertia of the weight when you pick up the end of the game and drop it. We used to get free games at college that way, since the drop would make the coin switches close, so this is an anti-cheat measure. Since you aren't worried about you cheating yourself, you can just solder a bridge across it.

[KirkLasVegas]

That's a drop switch. It should be normally closed (contacts touching), and open briefly by the inertia of the weight when you pick up the end of the game and drop it. We used to get free games at college that way, since the drop would make the coin switches close, so this is an anti-cheat measure. Since you aren't worried about you cheating yourself, you can just solder a bridge across it.

Just bend the contact withOUT the weight on it.
You will find another one inside the coin door...

As he said..not needed in a home gameroom....


Kirk

[Randy0777]

If I leave it closed,the score wheel just spins and the tilt flashes and the score wheels make a steady clicking sound...which is staying on 600

[Op-Bell]

If I leave it closed,the score wheel just spins and the tilt flashes and the score wheels make a steady clicking sound...which is staying on 600

Well that's ok, you've just advanced to the next step of debugging. The score motor won't stop until all the score wheels are at 0, so your next task is to find out why the 100s wheel is stuck at 6, and fix it.

[mkd3b]

Oh this is like watching a good Drama isnt it  The suspense is killing me

[Randy0777]

Oh this is like watching a good Drama isnt it  The suspense is killing me

LOL,Killing you !!!

[Randy0777]

When I first tried it,the score advanced as I was playing...but never really watched the hundreds...When I tried again,that is when the score reset to zeros,except the 6

[Randy0777]

Pulled the backboard out and all of the reels are "tight" except for the hundreds,which I can turn easy   ...Playing with that now.


Edit For what its worth. Looking at the coils behind the score reels (each has two) they have a white wrapper around the coils ,except for the two that on the hundreds . Could these overheated or something .

[Op-Bell]

Push the coil armature (plunger) in with your finger and see if the ratchet clicks and steps the wheel when it releases. If the plunger is stuck and won't push in, the coil will draw a lot more current and get hotter than it should. I don't know why they have two coils - are we talking about the same thing?



(image linked from Clay's site)

[Randy0777]

Mine looks different,but looking at them I can see all of the plunger on the solinoid were out,except for the hundreds... I hit it with a screwdriver to see if it was frozen and it popped out. The game is playing normal right now   . I'll play a few and see what it does.

Edit After playing about ten games. Once in awhile the ball will not kick out (2 out of 50). Everthing else seems fine so far

Edit After playing a few more games,the hundred wheel is stuck again  ....Anyone know off hand where I can get parts at?

[mkd3b]

Marco specialties  and Happ controls if I recall  correctly for pin parts