1973 Gottlieb's "High Hand". Not working

[galahad]

Are you sure the 100 point coil is stuck in, or is there voltage (25 volts) holding the coil in? Could be a 100 point switch on the playfield with contacts to close.
A good place for Gottlieb parts is Steve Young from PB Resource. http://www.pbresource.com/. Good luck with your fix! Also as op-bell said, manually push the plunger for the coil in with your finger and make sure the scoring reel rotates smoothly. Watch the contacts on the score reel as you push to see if anything is binding.

[cfh]

Edit After playing a few more games,the hundred wheel is stuck again  ....Anyone know off hand where I can get parts at?

Chances are *good* you don't need any parts.
You probably just need to CLEAN the score reel parts.
Now before you go taking it all apart, keep a few things
in mind...

First does the reel have a match or high score disc on it?
this is a bakelite plate that allows the game to know the
score for replay values. if it has this, these are MUCH harder
to work on that a reel that doesn't have it. just a warning...

Look at the switches on a working reel. There's a zero position
switch that closes at zero (actually a pair). And another that
opens. And one that closes at the 9 position. Make sure
those are all cool.

If the reel won't advance well, there is a CHEAT to fix this.
instead of taking the whole thing apart and cleaning it
(which is what you SHOULD do, but it's risky if you've
never done it before), you can cheat. That is, the return
spring that pulls the plunger back and advances the reel.
You can shorten the spring about 3/8". This often 'fixes'
the problem. I can cut the spring and replace it with a
hemostat in about 1 minute. Compared to disassembling
the reel and cleaning, which takes 15 minutes.

[pinballfixer2]

I agree with the fuse holder for the 50V line. no matter what the score motor should run when moved from the home position.
nothing else will work until you get that score motor to run. 50v runs through a carry over switch on the score motor to run it anytime it is not in the home position.

[Randy0777]

Just seen the new replies since my last post. This is what I have   I can play it fine for a day or so,than the hundred wheel one go back to zero. I turned the game on and off a few times and it went back to zero and played. Its stuck again and I tried the on and off.... no luck. So I was going to look online to order one until I just seen the new post.

Clay,the game does have the match feature ( 00-90) that lights up on the glass,and if it matches the score,free game.  I'll read up on cleaning the reels,also check the other options .

When it does this(coil stuck in) I put something there and gently nudged it and it pops outand will play

Again,thanks for all the help people.

[cfh]

I agree with the fuse holder for the 50V line. no matter what the score motor should run when moved from the home position.
nothing else will work until you get that score motor to run. 50v runs through a carry over switch on the score motor to run it anytime it is not in the home position.

ok you're just really scaring me.
No gottlieb pre-1989 uses 50 volts for ANYTHING.

[cfh]

Just seen the new replies since my last post. This is what I have  I can play it fine for a day or so,than the hundred wheel one go back to zero. I turned the game on and off a few times and it went back to zero and played. Its stuck again and I tried the on and off.... no luck. So I was going to look online to order one until I just seen the new post.

Clay,the game does have the match feature ( 00-90) that lights up on the glass,and if it matches the score,free game.  I'll read up on cleaning the reels,also check the other options .

When it does this(coil stuck in) I put something there and gently nudged it and it pops outand will play

Again,thanks for all the help people.

yes of course it has a match feature. all gottlieb games have
a match feature from 1957 forward (except for 1960s/1970s
Add-a-ball games.)

what i was getting at was only certain reels have the
bakelite disk. i don't know which reel you're having
problems with, so i can't suggest more options.

[Op-Bell]

what i was getting at was only certain reels have the bakelite disk. i don't know which reel you're having problems with, so i can't suggest more options.

He said it's the hundreds reel, and it will have the switch disk because it's needed for the high-score replays. At this point I would dismantle it and clean the solenoid, as it sounds like the armature may be dirty and sticky. It might also be that the solenoid frame screws have worked loose so it isn't pulling straight, and I'd check that first since it's less work.

[cfh]

Ok then. High Hand has four reels, plus one "dummy."
So there's a 10s, 100s, 1000s, 10k reels. Only the
10k and 10s reels should have bakelite discs. Again,
the disc confuses things, because it puts more "drag"
on the reels. the bakelited reels need to be very
clean to work right. the non-bakelited reels, well,
not so much.

so his 100s reels should have no bakelite. Again,
simplier, just refer to the picture above on the
parts identification.

to take apart and clean, remove the "E" clip that
holds the reel basket to the assembly. Careful,
as the parts are spring loaded. so don't loose them.
clean everything. do NOT lube upon reassembly,
as it's nylon against steel, which is self lubricating.
use an aseembled reel (like the 1000s) as a key.

if the reel in trouble had a bakelite disk, there's
another step involved...

[Randy0777]

Yes,the "ones" is a dummy. So it would be the 100's that is messing up. If you look at the picture you can see the solinoid stuck in(100's)

[Randy0777]

Sorry,wrong picture...here is the one with it stuck

[pinballfixer2]

I agree with the fuse holder for the 50V line. no matter what the score motor should run when moved from the home position.
nothing else will work until you get that score motor to run. 50v runs through a carry over switch on the score motor to run it anytime it is not in the home position.

ok you're just really scaring me.
No gottlieb pre-1989 uses 50 volts for ANYTHING.

Sorry, don't be scared... I'm just refering to "coil voltage" which is different on many machines, right now I've been working on Bally Bingos. Any way, lots of good info here, should be a simple fix on that score drum. Good luck

[pinballfixer2]

ooops, the last post picture shows the 100's relay, not the reel. If this relay is stuck, you may have a stuck switch on the playfield if it is "energized" and cant release it manually, or on the reel itself , there is a switch that is normally closed until the plunger pulls all the way, then a set of contacts opens and allows the relay to relax. Also there may be a mechanical bind or burr on the relay flap itself, run a small flat file between the relay flap and coil armature. keep at it...you'll get it!!!
Tom

[cfh]

Again, no. his last picture is showing the score reel
plunger that is stuck in, not the relay. But it should be asked,
is the 100 relay also energized? because if it is,
there's a couple of reasons that can happen.

as mentioned above, could be a stuck playfield
100 point switch. But there are other things too.

The way this works is this:
1. ball hits 100 point playfield switch.
2. 100 point relay pulls in and STAYS IN.
3. switch on 100 point relay activates
the chime coil, the 100 point relay,
and the 1000 point relay (if the 100
point reel is at '9').
4. As the 100 point score reel plunger
pulls in, it OPENS a switch at it's End
of Stroke (EOS). This switch opens the
circuit to the 100 point relay, and the
100 point relay DE-ENERGIZES.

The reason they do this with the EOS
switch is to ensure a good long pulse
of the score reel plunger. Often the EOS
switch breaks on the score reel. Which is
actually Ok, but it means the score reel
isn't pulsed for as long. This can caused
missed and lower scores, and reels in
the "half way" position.

=========
Another thing to check - when the score
reel plunger is "in", turn the game off.
Does the plunger stay "in?"  If so, you
have a mechanical problem. If it "lets go",
you have an electrical problem.

That should narrow things down a bit.

[Randy0777]

After I turn it off,it will stay stuck in. Once I free it,it will play fine...Until I let it sit ,than hit the play credit and all the reels reset to zero except for that one.

[cfh]

well if it stays stuck in after power-off,
you have a mechanical problem. meaning
you need to take it apart and clean everything.
probably a new coil sleeve would be good.
but you can use the original if you clean it
well with a qtip and some alcohol. also
make sure the plunger is smooth. sometimes
the bottom edge mushrooms from hitting
the coil stop. grind/file off that mushroomed edge.

[Randy0777]

Thanks Clay, I'll try it....One other thing,as I'm playing the hundred reel will come close to where its' supposed to be,as the score is increasing. Like if it was on 7 and it suppose to move to the 8,it will just about get all the way to the 8... However, the next score would move normal

[cfh]

often the transition from '8' to '9' and from '9' to '0' are
difficult one for any score reel, because of the added
pressure of the 9th position switch.

[knagl]

Edit: Sorry, I didn't see the additional pages beyond the first -- my comment was already covered.

[Randy0777]

Just a quick update...
The hundred reel IS the problem. I did as much as I can with fixing it as it is still in place(70%) better. Only way I can pull the unit out is un-solder a sh*t load of wires. >>>It's near the top of my list. Now,since I'm working on this and I have so much help  . Two other things...
Once in a great while as I'm playing...Any vibration(Hitting the flippers,ball hitting something,any vibration really) the points will rack up . Maybe one out of thirty games.
The second I'll post a picture of the part I know I need....Voltage is good.
Again,I thank everone for all the help.

[cfh]

i've never had to unsolder a reel to work on one.
but that's me.

[Randy0777]

Hi Clay,if you look at the pictures .All of the wires you see at the reels are solderd at the connections. And you cant unhook the other end(like a harness that plugs in)

[Op-Bell]

I think you may be able to dismantle it in place and get the board off without having to unsolder all the wires. At the least, you can unscrew the solenoid from the frame and get that off to clean it.

[cfh]

I think you may be able to dismantle it in place and get the board off without having to unsolder all the wires. At the least, you can unscrew the solenoid from the frame and get that off to clean it.

yes exactly!
there's NO need to desolder anything when working
on score reels. You're just opening a bad box full
of potential problems and errors. put the soldering
iron away!

[knagl]

Once in a great while as I'm playing...Any vibration(Hitting the flippers,ball hitting something,any vibration really) the points will rack up . Maybe one out of thirty games.

Sounds like a leaf switch out of adjustment (the leaves are too close together, causing a vibration to close the circuit for a second and advance the score).  When it happens, try to see which score reel is getting advanced (1's, 10s, or hundreds) and then take a real close look at all of the switches that can score the amount that is being scored to see if any are too close together and could potentially be the problem.  Odd that it happens very infrequently, but that's still where I'd start.

[Randy0777]

It just started doing it,and it may do it 1 out of 30 games. And when it does do it, it racks up points like you were actually scoring while playing. I need to pull it back out and play with it some more  .