TITO is DEAD!!!

[jdkmunch]

I wanted to mention on my cruise the casino had a new system to play.   All you had to do was insert your cruise card (your room key) - pick a pin -  then you could enter how much money you wanted to play and they would charge you!!

Enter $50 and boom - $50 in credits.  When you done you hit cash out and the money would go into a "bank" from which you could draw from to play on other machines. 

At the end of the cruise you go to the cash machine stick your card in and the money you won comes out.   No paper -  no money -  no fee for charging - 

very easy to burn through a ton of cash. 

[jdkmunch]

Here's a picture of my nemesis -  You can see the player cash system -

[Neonkiss]

This is the same system used in casinos for promotions.
Say your a new player and you go sign up for a players card. Many casinos have promotions for new players.
Sign up and get $20.00 in slot play, or spend $50.00 and get $50.00 in slot play.
All the money is kept on your player card secured behind your pin number.
At the end of the evening you can hit cash out and print a ticket instead of transferring that money back to your card.
The ticket (TITO) is then  cashed at a window or money machine.

[reho33]

See, the sinister part of all this is that soon (if not already) you will be able to insert your credit or debit card in a machine and blow all your money at one shot.

[CaptainHappy]

See, the sinister part of all this is that soon (if not already) you will be able to insert your credit or debit card in a machine and blow all your money at one shot.

That technology is already here, but the Regulators are resisting it! I am glad they are as there is enough problem gambling out there! At least now you have a chance to change you mind on the way to the ATM!!!

CaptainHappy

[jdkmunch]

Yep  -  a few hundred on the credit card within a few seconds.

[Op-Bell]

Cruise ships are outside the regulator's grasp, so they can use such a system, but it won't happen any time soon in mainland casinos even though the technology exists.

I won't spoil anyone's day by revealing who holds all the patents and IP on card-to-credit systems.

Interestingly, I was in a casino last weekend when the TITO went down for an extended period. Machines were still able to issue cashout tickets, but no tickets were being accepted anywhere except at the cage, where there was a long and very disgruntled line. I don't know if the cage was able to validate tickets or if they were just cashing them at face value.

[jdkmunch]

I had the exact same situation at Hollywood Casino in PA - there was a severe thunderstorm and the power went out.   All the machines went down -   when the emergency power kicked in the machines came on - but nearly 1/3 had tilts -  reels spinning etc.   When the power came back on - the TITO was not working -  Just like Op-Bell said the machines were printing tickets but would not accept them.   The cashier didn't even scan the tickets - she just looked at it and gave you your cash.

An interesting note - the buffet only had tiny emergency lights - I didn't know what I was eating that night.  It was really dark.

[jdkmunch]

I'm goning to guess that it's our favorite three letter company.   


and NOT IBM
 

[CaptainHappy]

I'm goning to guess that it's our favorite three letter company.   


and NOT IBM
 

 

CH

[Railroad94]

See, the sinister part of all this is that soon (if not already) you will be able to insert your credit or debit card in a machine and blow all your money at one shot.

That technology is already here, but the Regulators are resisting it! I am glad they are as there is enough problem gambling out there! At least now you have a chance to change you mind on the way to the ATM!!!

CaptainHappy

I agree,I hope they keep that out. Seen many times when the atm would cut people off for the day and people would be mad as hell but after they left  they were thankful. So bring what your willing to loose and leave the cards for the cruise.

[StatFreak]

See, the sinister part of all this is that soon (if not already) you will be able to insert your credit or debit card in a machine and blow all your money at one shot.

That technology is already here, but the Regulators are resisting it! I am glad they are as there is enough problem gambling out there! At least now you have a chance to change you mind on the way to the ATM!!!

CaptainHappy

I agree,I hope they keep that out. Seen many times when the atm would cut people off for the day and people would be mad as hell but after they left  they were thankful. So bring what your willing to loose and leave the cards for the cruise.

This is definitely a situation where the availability of technology should not dictate implementation. ATMs have always had daily limits and as has been said, the person must leave the gaming area and get the cash. They have a chance to pause and consider the consequences of what they are doing, and even to hold the money before deciding to "donate" it to the casino. I hope that the regulators do not give in on this one. Of course, if direct credit card payment does get implemented, the regulators will no doubt impost daily limits.

Another thing to consider is credit card fraud. Gasoline stations that take cards at the pump have had to deal with this issue for years. The credit card companies do not have to honor a charge where the merchant has not verified ID or gotten a signature, so the station has to eat all disputes on those POS transactions. Gas stations can absorb these losses because there is a physical limit on the size of most purchases and there isn't really that much fraud that takes place.

Can you imagine how much the casinos would stand to lose? Thieves with stolen cards would make a beeline for the slots as it would be the equivalent of taking the card to a bank for cash advances until the card maxed out, but without the risk of direct confrontation with another human being. Ugly. I have personally managed a gas station and have also been a service officer running a teller line, AND have worked in retail banking in loss investigations. I've seen it all. It takes brass balls to walk into a bank and take money on a stolen card with a fake ID. I got a $100 reward the first time I caught one of these people in the act. She was able to leave the bank before the police showed up, but I retained the card. She had already taken several thousand dollars on that same card at three different banks before coming to my window.

I think that the casinos would have to implement some kind of fraud prevention strategy once this sort of transaction became commonplace. The simplest might be to only allow wins to be put back on the card, but the issue there would be that credits are not supposed to exceed charges, so any true winnings would need to be paid in cash. The card companies would (and already do) consider money taken for gaming to be cash advanced, and as such, charge a 2% - 3% fee plus daily interest at the highest level for the transactions. That could also throw water on the fire, as it were.

[reho33]

Yes, I think that limits would have to be imposed. But I don't think that Charles Fey envisioned credit card gambling at a video server based slot with no limits. Of course the casinos would love it as it would just be wagers for them but then if the card was stolen, disputes and litigation would ensure. Perhaps a better (bettor) solution would be to have the patron present him/herself at the cage and then get a disposable pin that could be punched into any machine and then the fun could begin with cashouts to ticket, hence the control.

[jdkmunch]

See, the sinister part of all this is that soon (if not already) you will be able to insert your credit or debit card in a machine and blow all your money at one shot.

I agree 100%

That technology is already here, but the Regulators are resisting it! I am glad they are as there is enough problem gambling out there! At least now you have a chance to change you mind on the way to the ATM!!!

CaptainHappy

I agree,I hope they keep that out. Seen many times when the atm would cut people off for the day and people would be mad as hell but after they left  they were thankful. So bring what your willing to loose and leave the cards for the cruise.

This is definitely a situation where the availability of technology should not dictate implementation. ATMs have always had daily limits and as has been said, the person must leave the gaming area and get the cash. They have a chance to pause and consider the consequences of what they are doing, and even to hold the money before deciding to "donate" it to the casino. I hope that the regulators do not give in on this one. Of course, if direct credit card payment does get implemented, the regulators will no doubt impost daily limits.

Another thing to consider is credit card fraud. Gasoline stations that take cards at the pump have had to deal with this issue for years. The credit card companies do not have to honor a charge where the merchant has not verified ID or gotten a signature, so the station has to eat all disputes on those POS transactions. Gas stations can absorb these losses because there is a physical limit on the size of most purchases and there isn't really that much fraud that takes place.

Can you imagine how much the casinos would stand to lose? Thieves with stolen cards would make a beeline for the slots as it would be the equivalent of taking the card to a bank for cash advances until the card maxed out, but without the risk of direct confrontation with another human being. Ugly. I have personally managed a gas station and have also been a service officer running a teller line, AND have worked in retail banking in loss investigations. I've seen it all. It takes brass balls to walk into a bank and take money on a stolen card with a fake ID. I got a $100 reward the first time I caught one of these people in the act. She was able to leave the bank before the police showed up, but I retained the card. She had already taken several thousand dollars on that same card at three different banks before coming to my window.

I think that the casinos would have to implement some kind of fraud prevention strategy once this sort of transaction became commonplace. The simplest might be to only allow wins to be put back on the card, but the issue there would be that credits are not supposed to exceed charges, so any true winnings would need to be paid in cash. The card companies would (and already do) consider money taken for gaming to be cash advanced, and as such, charge a 2% - 3% fee plus daily interest at the highest level for the transactions. That could also throw water on the fire, as it were.

I agree 100%   

[jay]

Assuming direct transfer I doubt Limits would be imposed beyond what the CC or Debit card companies impose. With respect to credit cards you would want this being treated as merchandise vs cash-advance

Here in Canada you cannot buy lottery tickets or scratch and win tickets on your credit card - only debit or cash.

The other federal rule that they have here pertains to gift cards. Companies are not permitted to reduce the value or charge a maintaince fee or have an expirey date like they do in the US.
With this in mind TITO is outside these rules - in that you have 30days to cash your TITO or other gaming voucher before it becomes null and void.

I think in the US there are banking regulations that pertain to holding CASH value on card vs a gaming token which can be exchanged for cash.

[stayouttadabunker]

Amazing...should this ever happen then my debit card
would be considered a "gambling device"...lol