S2000 power problem

[cowboygames]

Hi all, I turned on my Cleo this evening to play with my wife and all I'm getting is a relay click out of the power supply and the lights flash on the mpu board. 3v battery on mpu measures 2.8v and 3.6v battery measures 3.9 v. I know the 3v is low, but would this keep it from starting. Was playing it this morning and earlier this afternoon and it seemed fine. Thanks for the help

[PWRSTROKE]

2.8 volts is not low enough to keep you from starting.   It sounds like a pwr supply problem.  B.

[cowboygames]

I took the power supply out of my Super Spin and game powered up, but top box flourescent did not. Changed bulb and still no light. Unplugged ballast and put original power supply back in Cleo and game came right up. Will a bad ballast pull down a power supply that much?

[PWRSTROKE]

Yes it will,  Drawing too many amps.

[KirkLasVegas]

Yes it will,  Drawing too many amps.

Sounds like the electronic ballast was pulling down the power supply. Either get a rebuild kit for it or better yet, REPLACE it or convert to a CCFL tube....


Kirk

[Tilt]

2.8 volts is not low enough to keep you from starting.   It sounds like a pwr supply problem.  B.

What PWRSTROKE said, and when you get the power supply problem corrected get rid of that green 3.6v nicad battery.  It'll eventually start leaking acid and the next thing you know you'll have Door Open M/MB errors when it eats through the traces under it.

[PWRSTROKE]

Cowboy,  Take the ballast out of another game and verify.  Also from you making the swap and unplugging the molex pin connector on the pwr supply may have a issue.  Physically remove and inspect the pins on both the machine harness to pwr supply and the pwr supply itself and look for dark brown burnt looking sockets.  This was just another possibilty but it does sound like it,  The ballast may be the issue here.  B.

[KirkLasVegas]

Cowboy,  Take the ballast out of another game and verify.  Also from you making the swap and unplugging the molex pin connector on the pwr supply may have a issue.  Physically remove and inspect the pins on both the machine harness to pwr supply and the pwr supply itself and look for dark brown burnt looking sockets.  This was just another possibilty but it does sound like it,  The ballast may be the issue here.  B.

I bet if he opens that ballast, its a plastic box of burn offerings.....
How they last as long as they do is anyones guess....


Kirk

[cowboygames]

That's what I thought. Hope I haven't weekened my power supply on a crappy ballast. Anyone seen the led panels mcm has to replace belly and top box lights? They look nice, but they're pretty pricey. CFL's don't use a ballast? Sorry, don't really know crap about lighting

[Tilt]

Cowboy,  Take the ballast out of another game and verify.  Also from you making the swap and unplugging the molex pin connector on the pwr supply may have a issue.  Physically remove and inspect the pins on both the machine harness to pwr supply and the pwr supply itself and look for dark brown burnt looking sockets.  This was just another possibilty but it does sound like it,  The ballast may be the issue here.  B.

Cowboy,  Take the ballast out of another game and verify.  Also from you making the swap and unplugging the molex pin connector on the pwr supply may have a issue.  Physically remove and inspect the pins on both the machine harness to pwr supply and the pwr supply itself and look for dark brown burnt looking sockets.  This was just another possibilty but it does sound like it,  The ballast may be the issue here.  B.

I bet if he opens that ballast, its a plastic box of burn offerings.....
How they last as long as they do is anyones guess....


Kirk

Seems to me there was a IGT CN on the ballasts, when I get to my other computer I'll see if I can find it.

[cowboygames]

That would be great, thanks. To pwrstroke, I pulled power supply and checked connectors first thing when it acted up and all looks good. I think I'll do like Kirk suggested and replace all lights with non-ballast types. Maybe LED, we'll see. Lotta $$$ for that

[KirkLasVegas]

That would be great, thanks. To pwrstroke, I pulled power supply and checked connectors first thing when it acted up and all looks good. I think I'll do like Kirk suggested and replace all lights with non-ballast types. Maybe LED, we'll see. Lotta $$$ for that

Well, NEW ballast will last a long time.....
Yours are probably 15 years old and they run hot anyways. Nothing wrong with replacing the ballast with another OEM...


Kirk

[cowboygames]

Know anyone with like 4 or 6 of them floating around? I've got 3 S2000 and at least 2 are older, like 2001 models. The Double Diamond is an '03 so they're prolly not to bad, but it's three for each machine unless I switch to LED on the reel glass to keep my reel strips from fading. I noticed on MCM those puppies are $36 and some change now.

[PWRSTROKE]

A small note about power supplies and draws on them without getting to tech. here.  Number one is,  The actual machine you have may not have the correct power supply in it to begin with,  There are numerous one's esp. for the s-2000's and other makes.  What dictates the voltage and ampherage rating is the "demand" of the build/machine--does it have a lot going on or is it regular.  This being said some machines that are aquired by anyone,  You cannot assume it has the correct pwr supply in it.  Pwr supplies can be easily repaired as it has been documented here numerous times in the past.   There are many methods to test/chk these.  Often the pwr supplies fail from caps and again the cap failures have a root cause (drawing too many amps).   Anyway I am glad you found your "root" cause.  B.

[cowboygames]

Thanks pwrstroke, you're right, they're not tough to fix just another thing on an endless list of stuff to do if it comes to that. Each morning we wake up breathing is another chance to knock a couple things off the list

[Foster]

Also I have noticed that the 3 pin connectors for the wiring going to the ballast like to arc.
I have had to clean and rejuvenate the one for the belly glass light

[KirkLasVegas]

A small note about power supplies and draws on them without getting to tech. here.  Number one is,  The actual machine you have may not have the correct power supply in it to begin with,  There are numerous one's esp. for the s-2000's and other makes.  What dictates the voltage and ampherage rating is the "demand" of the build/machine--does it have a lot going on or is it regular.  This being said some machines that are aquired by anyone,  You cannot assume it has the correct pwr supply in it.  Pwr supplies can be easily repaired as it has been documented here numerous times in the past.   There are many methods to test/chk these.  Often the pwr supplies fail from caps and again the cap failures have a root cause (drawing too many amps).   Anyway I am glad you found your "root" cause.  B.

Actually Electrolytic caps fail due to DRYING OUT. The "electrolyte" in them is in a paste form. What happens (From old age and heat)is the cap loses it's ability to conduct and store. A good Cap will have a rating of +80/-20 percent and still be in spec. In other words a 1000MFD filter can be as little as 800MFD or 1800MFD and still be "Useable"
If you take a failed cap and put it on a measuring bridge you will find it's either VERY low in capacity or it's not even a cap anymore! AC ripple and noise get thru and drives the supply crazy!
What happened in Cowboys machine?
I highly suspect the Ballast finally went shorted. The supply tries to power up, but the heavy load "Sacks" the switcher and drives it into shutdown (Protection circuit). It repeats this..over and over (the clicking sound).
Once the heavy draw or short is removed it fires up just fine, no damage done. "Switchers" will do this, Analog supplies will either fry whats shorted or burn themselves up trying to smoke the shorted device.
The Electronic Ballasts in IGT machines have a high failure rate around the 15 year mark. Looking at them you will see discoloration on the case from internal heat.
They ARE tough birds....have to give them that, but enough is enough and they will finally fail.If he installs a new(er) one I suspect it will outlast the time HE owns the machine....

Kirk

[PWRSTROKE]

Thanks pwrstroke, you're right, they're not tough to fix just another thing on an endless list of stuff to do if it comes to that. Each morning we wake up breathing is another chance to knock a couple things off the list

Cowboy,  I have/had the leisure of just swapping the pwr. supplies in the past to get back up running.  In the future I will probably componet-level repair them,  I have too many other "big-fish" componet level repairs on other electronics with these to worry about those rite now--B.

[stayouttadabunker]

It would be excellent for someone to put out a cap kit with instructions
for these soon-to-burn-out power supplies.
The older bally and Stern pinball guys have excellent kits.
We need our board wiz's to figure out a good kit.

[Tilt]

A small note about power supplies and draws on them without getting to tech. here.  Number one is,  The actual machine you have may not have the correct power supply in it to begin with,  There are numerous one's esp. for the s-2000's and other makes.  What dictates the voltage and ampherage rating is the "demand" of the build/machine--does it have a lot going on or is it regular.  This being said some machines that are aquired by anyone,  You cannot assume it has the correct pwr supply in it.  Pwr supplies can be easily repaired as it has been documented here numerous times in the past.   There are many methods to test/chk these.  Often the pwr supplies fail from caps and again the cap failures have a root cause (drawing too many amps).   Anyway I am glad you found your "root" cause.  B.

Actually Electrolytic caps fail due to DRYING OUT. The "electrolyte" in them is in a paste form. What happens (From old age and heat)is the cap loses it's ability to conduct and store. A good Cap will have a rating of +80/-20 percent and still be in spec. In other words a 1000MFD filter can be as little as 800MFD or 1800MFD and still be "Useable"
If you take a failed cap and put it on a measuring bridge you will find it's either VERY low in capacity or it's not even a cap anymore! AC ripple and noise get thru and drives the supply crazy!
What happened in Cowboys machine?
I highly suspect the Ballast finally went shorted. The supply tries to power up, but the heavy load "Sacks" the switcher and drives it into shutdown (Protection circuit). It repeats this..over and over (the clicking sound).
Once the heavy draw or short is removed it fires up just fine, no damage done. "Switchers" will do this, Analog supplies will either fry whats shorted or burn themselves up trying to smoke the shorted device.
The Electronic Ballasts in IGT machines have a high failure rate around the 15 year mark. Looking at them you will see discoloration on the case from internal heat.
They ARE tough birds....have to give them that, but enough is enough and they will finally fail.If he installs a new(er) one I suspect it will outlast the time HE owns the machine....

Kirk

Kirk,

I agree with you, but tell me S2000's aren't 15 years old already...Makes me feel old 

[cowboygames]

Kirk makes a good point, we used to replace a crap load of caps in RCA vcr power supplies. Seems like they all failed at once. Their problem was that the voltage rating versus the poor quality caps they used was to much to handle. We usually replaced a 25v cap with a 35 or 50 and that took care of future visits. That and we used better caps rated for higher temps. RCA made nothing but crap from the early 90's on. Anyway, sounds like the smart money just replaces the ballasts for now. And pwrstroke, not a bad idea at all to keep an extra supply around. Can I just get one of the beefier ones and use it in any of my machines? Kind of a more than you need ain't always a bad idea theory?

[U.S.AutoService]

2.8 volts is not low enough to keep you from starting.   It sounds like a pwr supply problem.  B.

What PWRSTROKE said, and when you get the power supply problem corrected get rid of that green 3.6v nicad battery.  It'll eventually start leaking acid and the next thing you know you'll have Door Open M/MB errors when it eats through the traces under it.

You guys sure know a lot, a lot more then me.  But this acid leaking deal, would that cause a green looking powder flaking on some of the resistors and chips ?  I have a machine or two that I just noticed it on .  One will not boot up, it cycles on and off ever 4 or 5 seconds.  Should I plan on changing all the green batteries soon ? Should I junk the boards too ?


        U.S.Auto Service
      Dan

[stayouttadabunker]

There MIGHT be some type of de-acidizing spray that will help.
I think they sell them in compressed air cans at automotive parts outlets
for batteries.
Basically what it does is neutralizes the acidic green stuff that eats everything and anything.

[U.S.AutoService]

I have some battery acid detector and cleaner I use on car batteries.  I think it is water based and might not be the correct thing to use.
I will try it on a junk board first.  Using compressed air to remove the cleaner.

I thought it was the smaller battery that was causing the cycling, but a new one didn't help. Maybe the acid already had it's lunch & dinner on the board.


       U.S.Auto Service
       Dan

[stayouttadabunker]

It's okay if it's water based.
All you have to make sure is that it's completely dry before submitting any power to it.