Poll: What is your favorite payout chip for home use?

[MikeyB]

I guess there is no way to actually set up a poll so here it is. 

I am moving up the slot ladder.  Mechanical, EM, and now computerized

What % payback are most of your machines set at?

What % payback is your favorite?

What % payback makes the game more interesting? 

Basically I don't want 100+ spins of nothing then get a cherry.  On the other hand I don't want 100 spins with half of them containing only a cherry, it would bore me too quickly... Basically a good mix of them, and the best chance of the top prize.  I am looking for something more towards a machine that has a multiplier.  My favorite would be either double/triple cherry or diamonds.   If I can sneak it in the house without getting caught by the wife, I would go for an I-game!!!

[jay]

Add a poll ..... No Problem....

I use 92% ish - the reason being is that it is readily available. I have tried to collect higher %% for my games and they are rare to come by.

[StatFreak]

...
Basically I don't want 100+ spins of nothing then get a cherry.  On the other hand I don't want 100 spins with half of them containing only a cherry, it would bore me too quickly... Basically a good mix of them, and the best chance of the top prize.  I am looking for something more towards a machine that has a multiplier.  My favorite would be either double/triple cherry or diamonds.   If I can sneak it in the house without getting caught by the wife, I would go for an I-game!!!

Short answer:
I think that Triple Double Cherry would be a good starting point for you. The best thing to do would be to find a slot shop or a friend and try out lots of games. Casino play works, too, but it's expensive.

The simple answer:
Most of us want the highest percentage chip that we can get our hands on for any particular game, given that no slot game chips pay back over 100%. If they did pay back mega-percentages, they would get boring. The exception are tournament chips where players compete for high scores. Those can be fun for home use when used sparingly. If you have an IGame, Game King, or an S2000 running newer games, they will have all of the paytables built into one chips and you will be able to select your payout percentage during the key chip setup. As Jay said, it can be hard to find chips paying over 95%, so we often settle for lesser chips because that's what we can buy.


The real answer:
The differences that you seek are not really a function of payback percentage. What you are talking about is the inherent volatility of the game, which is built into specific games by design.

For any specific game, the percentage changes generally (but not always) add or subtract some of the smaller and mid-level pays. The jackpot and top prizes usually don't change from chip to chip. In fact, these changes can be quite subtle, since a very small change in the number of single cherry or mixed bar payouts will make a large difference in the overall payback, because there are so many combinations of these prizes. The true effect of having the highest paying chips at home is that over the long run, we get more of the small payouts that keep our credit meters happy, i.e., we get more miles for our dollars and don't have to reload as often. We also get slightly more frequent payouts in most cases.

Volatility is an expression of how drastically a player's bankroll might be expected to swing over short lengths of time (by casino standards). You seem to be seeking games with mid-level volatility. Five times pay themes might also suit you, although they will be a bit more volatile. That is, you will have longer losing streaks followed by larger hits, but not as bad as a 7x, 10x or 12x (Dozens of Diamonds) multiplier would be.

Your desire to have "the best chance of the top prize" is somewhat at odds with your desire to not have "100 spins with half of them containing only a cherry" (low volatility) and not to have "100+ spins of nothing then get a cherry" (high volatility) because the lowest odds for top prizes invariably are found in the Buy-A-Pay games like Sizzling Sevens, which are generally not that volatile. However, these games do have their swings, so you might get enough "action" to suit your tastes.

To give you an idea of the differences, on an S+ (I don't own an S2000 so I don't have the info) the odds of hitting the top prize on Sizzling Sevens is only 1 in 4,096. The odds of hitting the jackpot on older games like Double Dollars is 1 in 32,768. The original Double Diamond top prize odds are either 1 in 46,656, or 1 in 186,624, depending on the chip. Most mid-range games like Wild Cherry and Triple Double have jackpot odds of 1 in 373,248, while some are 1 in 262,144. When you get to the Five Times Pay, the odds get longer (1 in 729,000). Dozens of Diamonds have odds of 1 in 2,097,152 of hitting the jackpot!


Most of us really like the line games, but they will have much lower volatility that coin-multiplier games (single line). You end up with lots of smaller payouts and fewer large ones. That doesn't seem to be what you are after, so I would suggest avoiding them for now.


Keep in mind that the new 5-reel video and physical slot machines with a gazillion lines and scatter pays are usually much less volatile than you might like. You see a lot of members posting big hits of 15000 coins or more, but remember that they are betting 200 coins a spin or more, in some cases. 15000/200 = 75. That's the same as a 225 coin hit on a 3-coin machine, and the 15000 credits will disappear just as quickly (except that the low volatility will keep feeding you credits).

Stat

[StatFreak]

Add a poll ..... No Problem....

I use 92% ish - the reason being is that it is readily available. I have tried to collect higher %% for my games and they are rare to come by.

Jay, I'm just curious. I notice that you voted for 92.8%. Would you really prefer a 93% chip over a 98% chip IF you could get it?

SF

[MikeyB]

Thank you Jay for adding a poll!    Is it a mod privilege?  if not, how would I create one on my own?

[StatFreak]

Thank you Jay for adding a poll!    Is it a mod privilege?  if not, how would I create one on my own?

You should have been able to create one when you started the thread. When you're on the board screen, it is the blue button to the far right at the top of the thread listings, just to the right of "New Topic."
I'm not sure if you can add a poll to your own thread once you've created it.  If you can, the button would be at the bottom of the last post towards the lower right. You can check it out in another thread that you've started. The button won't show in this thread because a poll has already been created.

[MikeyB]

Stat Freak, I foresee your brain being picked severely in the near future!   Thank you so much for your explanations and suggestions!  As for the machines I would like to have, I like the multiplier ones that way it adds some excitement to the game.

The reasoning behind the 100+ spins with only 1-3 cherry symbols is due to the local casino Double diamonds machine that I play, not sure if this has anything to do with it or not, but there is a bank of 8 of them hooked up to a low progressive. I have put 100 spins/ 300 credits total used on them before and end up with about 3 or 4 cherry hits worth 6 credits each, and usually I manage to hit a mix bar pay also in that 100 spin run.  This is what I want to avoid...

I guess I should have been more complete on my wanna hit the jackpot line.... True, if we hit the Jackpot often, it would get boring.  What I meant was I want to be able to hit 100 and 200 credits more than once every 4-500 spins and be able to get the multiplier to hit like that also....

The reason behind the "all I get is cherries"  is from my experience with my Mills and my new (to me) Bally em 1114.  Out of 450 spins on the EM I hit the single cherry 45 times, double cherry 11, 3 of a kind (except for the bar)  4  and the 3 of a kind bar 2times.  So you see, the cherries are starting to bore me. lol

But yet right now, my machine is running about 76%

Does this new explanation help any on what I want?

[jay]

Stat,

I would prefer a 98% but as I have 4 or so machines going I like them to have the same percentage across the board.... don't want anyone accusing the house of using loss leader machines 
I view this a bit like collecting 3 coin machines vs 2 coin themes.....

I went for 3 coins but I would have preferred to collect 5 coin themes... its more about availability and consistancy than anything else....

With 60+ glass kits comprised of both 9" and 16" top glass for each theme .....My chip box runnith over so collecting multiple percentage of every theme is not going to happen.

[a69mopar]

For my S2000 machines that are multi dnom, I like to set the lowest denomination to the highest percentage and the highest denominaion to the lowest percentage, the ones in the middle decrease as the denomination gets higher.  This is like a personal joke to me since I know I can't continue to play on the low denomination for long without wanting to play for the big bucks, which drains my credits....

W

[brichter]

I'll take the highest one available every time...    I like winning.

[StatFreak]

Oh come on guys! No one has voted for the 85% chip!    We should add a 75% chip and see how many votes that gets. 

[ashyron]

I like to go with the highest payout and the reasoning is that I try to spin them until they hit a big  payout.  We have already hit the jackpot on a few of our games and that's the goal for me, get the game to jackpot and it's easier to do with the highest paying chip.  Of course not all our games have the highest paying chip but if I could get a 110% payback chip I would get it.

Oh come on guys! No one has voted for the 85% chip!    We should add a 75% chip and see how many votes that gets. 

Stat, isn't the game chip in my Jackpot Jungle an 83%?  Or is that 85%?  I don't mind it because it's a 3-line game.

[StatFreak]

MickeyB, another game that you might consider is standard RWB (Red, White, & Blue). In the original design, mixed sevens was weighted to pay out much more of the total coin out at the expense of the little pays. It is, IMHO, the reason that the game became so popular. On the 5-line version, they added even more weight to the mixed sevens, but the cm's still hit them frequently. You would win 240 coins each time on a 3cm version.

...

I guess I should have been more complete on my wanna hit the jackpot line.... True, if we hit the Jackpot often, it would get boring.  What I meant was I want to be able to hit 100 and 200 credits more than once every 4-500 spins and be able to get the multiplier to hit like that also....
...

That's really not going to happen. Slot machines accept only one wager but pay out for many different wins. This is different from, say, craps, where the player bets on each wager independently. When a separate wager is placed for each winning combination, the odds of hitting that combination can be much closer to the payout amount and still profit the casino. That is why the Buy-A-Pay machines have such low jackpot odds. You are paying for the top one to three prizes exclusively with the last coin so the odds of winning can be low.

With most slots, in order to pay back less than 100%, the odds of winning a particular amount must be much less than the amount won, so you're not going to hit 100 and 200 credit wins every 500 spins, and certainly not in a theme with multipliers. The math has to be set up so that the machine takes in enough to pay out the larger wins as well as all of the smaller wins along the way and still make a profit for the casino.

The more multiplier hits that a game has and the greater the multiplier(s), the fewer number of small payouts will be seen.

In the short-term of a few thousand spins, anything can happen, but in the long run, the math wins out.


<ADD> The balance of low and mid pays in a theme is one of the more important decisions that the designers make when they create a new slot. They know that this will affect the players' gaming experience and the popularity of the game, along with the artistic elements of design and the frequency and average payouts of the bonus rounds. It's a delicate balance, and they have to create games with different balances to satisfy the desires of different gamblers.

[StatFreak]

I like to go with the highest payout and the reasoning is that I try to spin them until they hit a big  payout.  We have already hit the jackpot on a few of our games and that's the goal for me, get the game to jackpot and it's easier to do with the highest paying chip.  Of course not all our games have the highest paying chip but if I could get a 110% payback chip I would get it.

Oh come on guys! No one has voted for the 85% chip!    We should add a 75% chip and see how many votes that gets. 

Stat, isn't the game chip in my Jackpot Jungle an 83%?  Or is that 85%?  I don't mind it because it's a 3-line game.

I think that you ended up with the 87.675% chip. Having three lines lowers the volatility so you still get frequent small hits, but if you could compare it to the 92% or 95% chip, you would find that over time the 88% chips would still deplete your credits much faster than the others.

[jdkmunch]

I voted for the 94% chip.  -- I like to keep my machines close to what the casino pays. 

I had some 99 and 98% chips but then I went to the local casino a couple of times and felt like I was getting ripped off.   

[ashyron]

felt like I was getting ripped off.   

  you were getting ripped off.....   

[jdkmunch]

I know! but I don't like to FEEL it!  lol
 

[ashyron]

I know! but I don't like to FEEL it!  lol
 

LOL point taken.

[StatFreak]

I know! but I don't like to FEEL it!  lol
 

Then stay home and play your 98% chips.    

[MikeyB]

What would I type in to find these payout chips that are for sale on ebay? I tried some of the website places but didn't have too much luck.  Also, how would I know what the payout % was on a chip?

 I was on craigs list earlier today, and may have hammered a deal out on a Double wild cherry machine.  The guy seems interested in what I have to offer for trade,

Now to find a way to get the beast home!!!!  Its obviously bigger than my Bally EM.  I still have my graduation present which is a 1995 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP (bought brand new) and all the way home, I was praying to god it didn't fall out of the trunk on the 129 mile drive home.  I think I might have to invest in a pick em up truck...  Since my wife drives a Camry.

[MikeyB]

Well, ok never mind on the new addition!    Seller has decided he wants cash/trade to equal $1350!!! And also informed me that it will come with no coin mech and no bill acceptor.  With a straight as possible voice, I told him I didn't have that much and best of luck then hung up the phone.   

Now for the rant!!    If I am gonna pay $1350 for a machine that I need to buy parts for to get it working, It sure as hell isn't going to be a machine I can buy fully functional from a dealer for $600!!!

[reho33]

You could take them apart totally like Stout did with his subaru LOL

[MikeyB]

You could take them apart totally like Stout did with his subaru LOL

Do I even wanna know the details on this???   

What the heck, inquiring minds want to know! Did he take the Subaru apart or the machines to fit in the Subaru?

[StatFreak]

You could take them apart totally like Stout did with his subaru LOL

Do I even wanna know the details on this???   

What the heck, inquiring minds want to know! Did he take the Subaru apart or the machines to fit in the Subaru?

Enjoy! 

http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=4099.0

SF

[Foster]

I had to do same thing to get them onto their stands.
Taking them apart saved my back.