Second Amendment News and Views.

[Joeylc]

One of my favorite topics. Armed Self-Defense *Works* 

We welcome Pro and opposing views. 

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,
the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.



http://www.gunbanobama.com/

[Joeylc]

Gun Sales Thriving In Uncertain Times


Warrenton gun shop owner Steve Clark said buyers fear restrictions on weapons that have been restricted before.

By Fredrick Kunkle
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, October 27, 2008; A01

Americans have cut back on buying cars, furniture and clothes in a tough economy, but there's one consumer item that's still enjoying healthy sales: guns. Purchases of firearms and ammunition have risen 8 to 10 percent this year, according to state and federal data.

Several variables drive sales, but many dealers, buyers and experts attribute the increase in part to concerns about the economy and fears that if Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois wins the presidency, he will join with fellow Democrats in Congress to enact new gun controls. Obama has said that he believes in an individual right to bear arms but that he also supports "common-sense safety measures."

"Even though [Obama] has a lot going for him, he's not very pro-gun," said Paul Pluff, a spokesman for Massachusetts-based Smith & Wesson, which has reported higher sales. Gun enthusiasts are "going to go out and get [firearms] while they still can."

Gun purchases have also been climbing because of the worsening economy, which fuels fears of crime and civil disorder, industry sources and specialists said.

"Generally, we know that hard economic times always result in firearm sales," said James M. Purtilo of Silver Spring, who publishes the Tripwire Newsletter.

Gary Kleck, a researcher at Florida State University's College of Criminology and Criminal Justice whose work was cited in the District's recent Supreme Court gun-control case, said that although there are no scientific studies linking gun sales and economic conditions, people often buy firearms during periods of uncertainty. People often buy weapons because of concerns about personal safety or government actions to limit access to firearms, causing spikes in sales, Kleck said.

Industry experts and law enforcement officials point to several examples over the years. In 1994, there was a rush to buy guns when President Bill Clinton pushed for a ban on military-style semiautomatic rifles. Handgun sales jumped last year after the massacre at Virginia Tech as some worried about personal protection and others feared sweeping restrictions on handguns, pushing applications for concealed gun permits in Virginia alone up 60 percent. People also rushed to buy guns after the 1992 riots in Los Angeles and the breakdown of order in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina.

Bob Leyshion, who visited a gun shop in Manassas recently, said the economic crisis and Obama's lead in the polls were on his mind.

"People are preparing for catastrophe right now," said Leyshion, 55, of Nokesville. "It's insurance. With the stock market crash and people out of work, and the illegal aliens in this area, the probability of civil disorder is very high."

Gun owners haven't been especially thrilled about the prospect of Sen. John McCain in the White House. They see the Arizona Republican as less of a threat than Obama, but they are still angry over McCain's support for certain gun-control measures in the past, such as requiring purchasers at gun shows to undergo background checks.

Gun owners said McCain's moose-hunting running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, is far more likely to champion Second Amendment rights.

"The industry and sportsmen have not been in love with McCain, but the selection of Palin wiped that all away," said Anthony Aeschliman, a spokesman for the National Shooting Sports Foundation.

More than three dozen interviews with gun dealers and buyers in Virginia and Maryland and with experts nationwide indicated that the increase in gun sales appears to be driven predominantly by concerns about the presidential election and the economy.

Gun buyers were more likely to say they were responding to the political situation than to the economy, and all but three people said they feared that Obama would restrict gun rights. Two who indicated that they would support Obama anyway said their concerns about the economy and health care outweighed those about gun rights.

Most buyers who emphasized the economy said they thought the worsening situation could lead to an increase in crime and jeopardize their safety. A few said they were buying guns as an investment.

"Look at the political situation and the financial situation," said Fred Russell, owner of Russell's Gun Emporium in Hagerstown, Md. "It's common sense. People are scared."

Brad, 42, and Margaret Marcus, 47, who were at a Fairfax County shooting range recently with their two children for weekly target practice, said they sped up the purchase of two semiautomatic rifles that had been banned during the Clinton administration because they feared they could become illegal again if Obama wins. The couple, who run an online retailing business from their Ashburn home, said they viewed Obama's remarks about protecting the Second Amendment as campaign trail "pandering."

"I think right now people are scared Obama is going to take their rights away," said Margaret Marcus, who was carrying a Glock 19 9mm semiautomatic pistol under a blue jean jacket embroidered with "Winnie the Pooh" characters. "He's definitely anti-gun, despite what you see in the mainstream media."

Law enforcement and industry data and anecdotal reports show that guns are selling well this year. In 2008, there were 8.4 million background checks from Jan. 1 to Sept. 28, compared with 7.7 million in the same period last year, a 9 percent increase, according to the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System.

The increase is also notable because it follows a heavy year for gun purchases, which industry officials and experts link to the Virginia Tech shootings in April 2007 and a burgeoning housing market crisis. NICS checks show a 20 percent increase in April 2007, compared with the previous year.

This year's jump is a continuation of a trend that began in 2006, about the time the housing bubble popped in parts of the nation, and remained steady last year as the political season began to take shape and the housing crisis grew. It is also a bigger jump than the average annual increases of about 5 percent or less typical since instant background checks began in 1998.

Federal tax data also show that quarterly excise taxes collected on sales of firearms and ammunition have increased about 10 percent this year, compared with last year, according to the National Shooting Sports Foundation.

Gunmakers see the same trend. "We're ahead of last year," said Pluff, of Smith & Wesson. "There's a few things that drive the market, and one of them is political elections."

On a recent weekend, a crowd of lookers and buyers milled around in the Virginia Arms Co. in Manassas. Some were shopping for large-capacity magazines, or clips, that attach to firearms and hold additional rounds of ammo. Those were banned during the Clinton administration and became legal again when the ban expired.

"I'm looking for gun clips because I got the funny feeling that prices are going to rise, or they're going to be banned," said Wayne Heglar, 48, who lives in Aldie and builds custom motorcycles. Heglar said he also planned to stock up on ammo.

"When the Democrats are in office, it seems like anti-gunners come out of the woodwork," Heglar said. He said he expected Obama to use tax law to restrict gun ownership. "A bullet will be a luxury," he said.

At Clark Brothers Gun Shop in Warrenton, a sign over the door says: "Experts Agree . . . Gun Control Works!" Underneath are photos of Hitler, Stalin, Fidel Castro and Libyan leader Moammar Gaddafi. There are also posters that criticize Obama's record on guns.

Steve Clark, the shop's owner, said customers have been buying weapons they fear would be restricted and that have been before, such as Colt AR-15s, semiautomatic rifles that go for $1,100.

"What I hear a lot is fear that Barack will win the election and tax everything to the point that you can't afford anything," said salesman Eugene Proko, 51.

[Joeylc]

This one is for you tacman 

Clinging to religion, and guns, 

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/CkM2Se3tqaU&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/CkM2Se3tqaU&rel=0</a>

[Neonkiss]

What's next, Clay Morters and Rocket launchers???
Put a towel on some of those kids and you would think you were in Afghanistan.
Kids over their will kill you rather that befriend you.
Is this another new post to start a NLG revolution?   

[Joeylc]

What's next, Clay Morters and Rocket launchers???
Put a towel on some of those kids and you would think you were in Afghanistan.
Kids over their will kill you rather that befriend you.
Is this another new post to start a NLG revolution?   

I for one very much appreciate your opinion    But I Don't  Agree with you.

We need to teach our youth just what a firearm can do!!

Take the mystery out of it !!! 

[Neonkiss]

Sorry, I'm sure my opinion is slanted because of my job.
I'm just tired of picking up these kids off the street and trying to get them to the hospital in time. That's if their lucky. Usually by the time the cops have the scene secured and we can move in their's not much we can do. Usually just call them on the scene and let PD handle it.
It is a war zone in our urban streets and It's not uncommon to run two or more shootings in one night. It has a way of tearing at you after 15 years. Nothing seems to change except the faces of the kids keep getting younger and younger. Honestly I know I'm getting burned out but you run one good call where you have a save and it gives the energy to keep going back to work. Sorry, I just see the affect it has on our youth. Some try to get out of this way of life but by the time they figure it out they have a rap sheet so long no one will hire them.
Just my 2 cents on this one.

[tacman]

Without getting into social commentary, I believe every law abiding citizen has a right to own firearms. But here are a few things to ponder:

The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. (waiting for attack)

The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more important than either.. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental.

1. Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

2. If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.

3. I carry a gun cause a cop is too heavy.

4.  When seconds count, the cops are just minutes away.

5. A reporter did a human-interest piece on the Texas Rangers. The reporter recognized the Colt  Model 1911 the Ranger was carrying and asked him 'Why do you carry a 45' ?  The Ranger responded, 'Because they don't make a 46.'

6. The old sheriff was attend ing an awards dinner when a lady commented on his wearing his sidearm. 'Sheriff, I see you have your pistol. Are you expecting trouble?'
'No Ma'am. If I were expecting trouble, I would have brought my rifle.'

7.  Beware the man who only has one gun. He prabably knows how to USE it!!!
 
8.  I was once asked by a lady visiting if I had a gun in the house. I said I did.
She said 'Well I certainly hope it isn't loaded!' 
To which I said, of course it is loaded, can't work without bullets!'
She then asked, 'Are you that afraid of someone evil coming into your house?'
My reply was, 'No not at all.  I am not afraid of the house catching fire either, but I have fire extinguishers around, and they are loaded too.'   

9. Having a gun in the house that isn't loaded is like having a car in the garage without fuel in the tank.

 
 Dan (tacman)

BTW Joey, how did you get video of my family reunion?????

[Forrhouse]

I'm not going to go into this in detail, but I believe that all LAW ABIDING citizens should have the right to bare arms.
Taking away this right only hurts the right of LAW ABIDING citizens.
Banning guns only leaves 3 types that will have them. 1) military  2) Police 3) Criminals.

Criminals are going to get them whether they are legal or not. Most criminals get them illegally anyway.
Most of the weapons used in crimes were illegal to begin with.  Stolen, trafficked, black market, etc

[Neonkiss]

No, don't get me wrong. I do believe in the right to carry a firearm. However that said, the video above with the kids firing automatic weapons is insane.
with respect, I don't agree to Joey when he responds,

"We need to teach our youth just what a firearm can do!!

Take the mystery out of it !!! "


Believe me they know what they do all to well. However they don't have the brain development to know the consequences of their use. To them is all a video game that has no reset button.
Hell why not just start them out with a beer or two.
You can take things too far and I believe the above video does just that. There are some whacked out people out there.
You have to remember that not everyone is a responsible adult.

[Joeylc]

http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=46570&referralPlaylistId=search|gun

[Joeylc]

However they don't have the brain development to know the consequences of their use. 

A responsible adult would teach them so if they happen to find a gun on the street or in the play ground or find themselves in a bad situation.

They will know the do's and don'ts....  and to call 911 and do not touch..

As adults, we teach our children to look both ways before crossing the street.
We teach our children about the dangers of drugs. the dangers of strangers.

Responsible adults teach our children Gun Safety..   You say you don't Owen a gun do you know where your kids are 24/7 ???

Teach Children Firearms Safety
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/oBMioFUxZms&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/oBMioFUxZms&rel=0</a>

Just my 2 cents 

[brichter]

The war on guns is every bit as effective as the war on drugs. It's funny to watch each political party try to tear down the other's logic, while trying to justify the same logic on their side.

Violent crime is a societal problem, not an inanimate object problem.

[Neonkiss]

FYI, I just saw this one on the news. Accidents do happen.

http://www.ohio.com/news/break_news/33354954.html

Boy, 8, killed in Massachusetts gun show accident
By Associated Press

POSTED: 09:44 a.m. EDT, Oct 27, 2008

WESTFIELD, MASS.: An 8-year-old boy died after accidentally shooting himself in the head while firing an Uzi submachine gun under adult supervision at a gun fair.

The boy lost control of the weapon while firing it Sunday at the Machine Gun Shoot and Firearms Expo at the Westfield Sportsman's Club, police Lt. Lawrence Valliere said.

The boy, Christopher Bizilj of Ashford, Conn., was with a certified instructor and ''was shooting the weapon down range when the force of the weapon made it travel up and back toward his head, where he suffered the injury,'' a police statement said.

Christopher died at Baystate Medical Center.

Police said the boy's father was at the gun fair and accompanied his son in the ambulance, but it wasn't clear if he was at the firing range with Christopher at the time of the accident. Police didn't give the father's name.

Although police called it a ''self-inflicted accidental shooting,'' police and the Hampden district attorney's office were investigating, officials said.

''We are going to review all the circumstance regarding what happened, who was involved, what authorities they may or may not have had, who was supervising,'' District Attorney William Bennett said today.

It is legal for children to fire a weapon if they have permission from a parent or legal guardian and are supervised by a properly certified and licensed instructor, Lt. Hipolito Nunez said.

Those conditions were met in this case, he said. He declined to release the supervisor's name.

The club said on its Web site that the event, run in conjunction with C.O.P Firearms and Training, is ''all legal and fun.'' People are allowed to fire weapons at vehicles, pumpkins and other targets, it said.

Officials of the private club and the firearms group could not be reached for comment. There was no response to a message left on a club answering machine. The C.O.P. group's machine clicked off without taking a message.

The sportsman's club was founded in 1949 and describes itself on its Web site as promoting ''the interest of legal sport with rod, gun, and bow and arrow, both directly and through training.''

It has eight firing ranges as well as archery and fishing facilities located on 375 acres in Westfield, about 100 miles west of Boston.

[Forrhouse]

Huh, I just posted to this topic about 20min or so ago.
What happened to my post?

[Joeylc]

Huh, I just posted to this topic about 20min or so ago.
What happened to my post?

Are you sure it posted I looked in the modlog no one nuked it ???

[Joeylc]

is this your post it's # 7

I'm not going to go into this in detail, but I believe that all LAW ABIDING citizens should have the right to bare arms.
Taking away this right only hurts the right of LAW ABIDING citizens.
Banning guns only leaves 3 types that will have them. 1) military  2) Police 3) Criminals.

Criminals are going to get them whether they are legal or not. Most criminals get them illegally anyway.
Most of the weapons used in crimes were illegal to begin with.  Stolen, trafficked, black market, etc

[Forrhouse]

No it was a follow up to that one. I pushed post and it seemed to go through. Weird.
Oh well. I'll write it again later.
Thanks,
Eric

[tacman]

OK, minors are a touchy subject, how about the other end of the spectrum?

 Dan (tacman)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/--K3X6rptE4&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/--K3X6rptE4&rel=0</a>

[Forrhouse]

Ok, What I was saying before is that I agree that there are problems.  Education is definitely a necessity.
Maybe even what some may call a little extreme.  Educate kids on the effects of gun violence, not only the victims, but the criminals.  Show them gory videos of the results of gun violence, the psychological effects on the families of both victims and criminals families, and the sentences that are handed down by the courts in regards to violent gun related crimes. We do this with minors when they get tickets and go to traffic school. We show them the results of bad traffic accidents and or the results involving DUI's and also when excessive speeding is concerned. Just like in sex education the parent's should have the right to sign off on whether or not they want their children to view this material.
I understand the problem. I had a friend who was like a brother and he was MURDERED.  He and his room mate were shot in the head at point blank range and then their bodies were taken and dumped like garbage in remote field. They were missing for 21 days. Waiting to find out 21 days was no picnic either.  It happened about ten years ago and I still feel the anger, the sadness and  the pain. He was about 23 years old and had his whole life ahead of him. What a shame. Not to mention his son of 3 at the time will barely remember his dad.

The answer is not taking away the rights of law abiding citizens, because of the actions of criminals. You can ban the guns, confiscate the guns and destroy the guns, but criminals will do what criminals do. They will find another way to obtain them. At minimum we should have the right to defend ourselves.

I feel the same about assault weapons. It is true that they have no other use, but killing. They are not good for hunting for obvious reasons, but some enjoy them at the outdoor shooting range, which is a controlled environment.  I do believe, however that the police, sheriffs, etc., should be outfitted with them as well. They should not be outgunned.
I am talking about the regular police, etc. There should be a budget for this even in hard times as bad things happen. Taking them away/ Banning them only puts them in the hands of three types of individuals.
1) The  Military,  2) The police and  3) The criminals

This is just my opinion, but I know many who share it.

E~

[jay]

I enjoy fire-arms, I have participated in skeet shoots, been gofer hunting, pheasant, duck, and deer. Used responsibly guns make for good sport.

The problem is that with our 1 parent homes our youth is not being taught "responsibility" and "concequences" and society is out of control. Even in our two parent homes with both parents working there is very little supervision. I would like to see that parents would be held responsbile for the actions of their children. This works in Singapore and they have the lowest crime rate in the world. In many countries society holds this behavior in check as a child is taught not to bring shame on the family. In summary the problem is not gun control but people control.

In Britan guns are strictly controlled, however the murder rate per capita is about the same as the US. They just use knives, and bare hands. This is the usual statistic that is thrown around by the NRA and supporters. What is often overlooked is the statistic of crimes committed where a fire-arm is present but never fired. For instance if I walked up to a casino cage - pointed a gun and said hand over the money, I would likely get the money. I might not make it across the casino floor but the presence of the gun is a real threat. On the flip side had I walked up to that same cage with a club I suspect I would have been laughed at, then shot. Britian doesn't have this same problem and these types of crimes occur with much less frequently.

I agree that criminals will have access to guns as they steal them from law abiding citizens and illegally import them. The problem is that even if we crimialized posession, stopped making them, selling them, and destroyed all that turned them in,  them there are so many out there that the criminals would still get access to them. So this is not the answer and the money and time we spend debating this is a waste. We won't ever be able to roll back and get to that level of gun control. Like emptying the ocean with a teaspoon.

I would advocate that anyone purchasing a gun should be made to take a firearms training course, so that proper use and storage is taught and hopefully some sense of responsibility would be instilled. Unfortunately you can't regulate stupidity.

I am not a big supporter of having a gun in my home as I think its a hazzard waiting to happen (i have young kids) but the NRA did make a point after 911. They suggested that if they gave a loaded hand gun to everyone who got on a plane then at least the good guys would out number the bad guys.

[Forrhouse]

I agree Jay. In California you have to take a small course and pass a test. A safety test. That's a good thing.
Yes, parents should be held responsible. With children proper safety has to take place. One should not only own a gun safe, but trigger locks, etc. all of this in addition to the education.
E~

[Slot Docs]

I agree with Joey 100% we do need to teach all of our kids to respect firearms and learn to use them properly. In the above video I would wager that the first thing that all of those kids learned was there is no such thing as an unloaded weapon, always check, never assume. In each and every case in the Video there was responsible Adult supervision with the kids. the problem of the street violence etc is mostly due to lack of education about firearms and their safe use, as well as not having a "mentor or father or mother" who gives a shit what happens to them. It is not proper to blame the gun for the usage, that is like blaming the cars for drunk driving.

[dpalmi]

...blaming the cars for drunk driving.

That's who I always blame 

Dan #2

[Joeylc]

FL Voters Cling To Guns
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/vg8B7fSlJeY&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/vg8B7fSlJeY&rel=0</a>
Gun sales are on a sharp rise in Florida on fear that an Obama presidency will take away this right.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/V71Do4Fj8XU&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/V71Do4Fj8XU&rel=0</a>

[Joeylc]

On the lighter side check this out (rubber band gun)

 
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/0GAUnuuBkW4&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/0GAUnuuBkW4&rel=0</a>