Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

[Joeylc]

This is so true can you find the news story on this I tried and no luck... sounds like a must read..

[stayouttadabunker]

Incidents involving Officers like this get shoved under the carpet big time...
not good for the P.R. and funding.

[rickh]

Then the news isnt doing its "job" like they used to... got a name or town name?

[stayouttadabunker]

The story of the kid on the 4-wheeler hit the news but you won't believe how
biased it was and how small of a section they used in the local papers.
The family is very well known around here in upstate new york and
the boy was always working on his uncle's farm doing chores.
The news reported that he "charged at them" but upon further looking into it...
the two officer's placed themselves at a corner of the trail in the bushes and the boy knew the trail by heart.
It was approaching nightfall but he knew his way on that trail because he rode it regularly.
He blasted around the corner like normal (curvy dirt trails in the woods up here)
and was continuing on towards his grandmother's house.
As he came out into the clearing past the woods, there was a couple more of
Border Patrol guys standing behind their doors waiting for anything to come out of the woods on that trail.
As he came out and sped by, yelled for him to stop but he couldn't hear them from the roar of his junky old 4-wheeler.
They open fired on him.
Everyone around here was extremely upset but only heard on the news that he was involved with drug smuggling.
Locals knew the boy very well and he's was just a young farmer's hand.
Classic case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Buzz]

This.  K+

I'm all for people being in the country legally (and people who are not legally in the country not being here), but the idea of having to produce your ID on demand to any agent of the state (police officer) who asks for it is against the whole idea of freedom that this country was built on.


[/quote]

kanagl  Are you saying you have never had to produce a ID of some kind to a Police Officer? It's actually works out pretty simple, Cop wants to see a ID and you refuse to produce one he takes you to jail.

[knagl]

kanagl  Are you saying you have never had to produce a ID of some kind to a Police Officer? It's actually works out pretty simple, Cop wants to see a ID and you refuse to produce one he takes you to jail.

On what grounds?  A police officer does NOT have the right to just walk up to anyone they choose and demand identification.  If an officer has cause to believe that I comitted a crime, that's a different story, but (save for this new law in Arizona) an officer of the law cannot just walk up to someone and ask for their ID and detain them if they refuse to produce one.

[rickh]

um.. that isnt how the new law works... they cant just come up to me or you and demand ID. They have to have come across you while doing thier duties... ie traffic stop... where yes you do have to produce ID as in a license, plus insurance and registration. I dont like that either, but thats how the current law is. If they just grab a mexican or mexican looking person and demand ID, they could get sued.

Personally, I am not as worried about those here for the past 10-20 years.... many have layed low and enjoyed it. My concerns are with those running the drugs in or people.... here in Phoenix, it is nitely news about drop houses, drug runners, hit-and-runs, gang related crime, and on and on... thats what I am hoping this law helps at least slow down if not stop.

[Joeylc]

by Alicia E. Barrón

Fox 11

Posted on April 27, 2010 at 7:17 PM

PHOENIX – Law enforcement took dozens of people into custody after busting an alleged drop house in Phoenix.

Agents responded to a house in the area of 26th Drive and Avalon on Tuesday after receiving reports of suspicious activity and a check welfare call just before 1 p.m.

When police arrived at the house, they found a group of illegal immigrants inside, many eating ham sandwiches and drinking beer. There were reportedly no weapons and no one acted in a violent manner.

Sgt. A.D. Davis, with the Phoenix Police Department, says "Officers got a call today at about 12:45 p.m. of a suspicious vehicle and just check welfare on the house. It all started last night.at around 11 o'clock they noticed a red van and a white pick-up...and they noticed that maybe 30-40 individuals got out and they noticed this type of behavior for the last three days."

Neighbors tell 3TV they had noticed something was up. Brent Farlin, a neighbor, says, “I’ve noticed some suspicious activity over the last week cars, these vehicles right here parked here 3:00, 3:30 in the morning and then they just suddenly leave.�

A total of 70 people including a small child were taken into custody and loaded onto an ICE bus to be processed and detained as neighbors stood by and watched.

www.fox11az.com/v/?i=92259979  video

[knagl]

um.. that isnt how the new law works... they cant just come up to me or you and demand ID.

Actually that's exactly how the new law works -- it grants police the power to stop and verify the immigration status of anyone they suspect may be illegal.  It's not a secondary-offense thing like you suggested (where they'd be asking for ID after making a stop for a traffic violation).

If they just grab a mexican or mexican looking person and demand ID, they could get sued.

Which is why one Arizona sheriff said that he has no intention of complying with the new law:

"We're damned if we do, and damned if we don't.  If we go out and look for illegal immigrants, they accuse us of racial profiling and we can get sued. And if some citizen doesn't think we're enforcing the state law, they can sue us too."

- Pima County (AZ) Sheriff Clarence Dupnik  (source)


Don't get me wrong, I'm not thrilled with the idea of people in the country illegally taking advantage of what the country has to offer and, in many cases, not paying taxes to the country.  However, I'm less thrilled with the idea of a police state where I have to provide "my papers" on demand to big brother to prove that I'm allowed to walk down the street.  We fight to keep our country free for a reason, and it's not to pass laws like this.

[rickh]

well, it may not see the light of day anyhow... papers filed today to get 1070 on the ballot, they need 70,000 signitures by July... and if they dont make that, they file to get it on the next election and the law sits on hold till 2012.....

[Joeylc]

it is nice that we can debate this topic in a civil manner....

some other sites are off the wall on  both sides .. 

well at least no one is throwing beer bottles at us so far//////////

 

[rickh]

I agree.... we all have our opinions and I respect them as much as someone respects mine. I assumed we are all adults, and was correct

[StatFreak]

Use of green card as an identity card

The card must be in the possession of the U.S. permanent resident at all times.

This means that the permanent resident must have a currently valid card on the person at all times and be able to show it to a United States Citizenship and Immigration Services officer, if requested.

Though aliens with permanent resident status are required to carry these identification cards, American citizens are not required to carry any citizenship identification. 

Right.    So how do you tell the difference between a U.S. citizen who does not need identification, a resident alien who does, and an illegal alien? The color of their skin? Their accent? The type of job they have? ... their religious beliefs... the clothes they wear ... the church they go to ... where does it stop?

Tell me, will the police be making concerted efforts to seek out illegal British or Scandinavian immigrants? How about Korean? How about Canadian?  Or are we really talking about selective enforcement of the law, racial profiling, and pandering to the mob?

Will your life really be so much better if these measures are taken that you are willing to give up more of your civil rights to the state to accomplish them? It is worth the price?

Might it really be that we are angry and frustrated with our failing economy and that we feel powerless to do anything about the downturns in our lives? Could it be that these aliens are scapegoats for all of our frustration -- a way to feel united against something, anything, as long as we can point a finger and blame someone else for the problems in our lives? History has shown that people who feel this way are easily manipulated. When something is motivated by fear and anger, be careful. Be VERY careful.

[brichter]

Right.    So how do you tell the difference between a U.S. citizen who does not need identification, a resident alien who does, and an illegal alien? The color of their skin? Their accent? The type of job they have? ... their religious beliefs... the clothes they wear ... the church they go to ... where does it stop?

Tell me, will the police be making concerted efforts to seek out illegal British or Scandinavian immigrants? How about Korean? How about Canadian?  Or are we really talking about selective enforcement of the law, racial profiling, and pandering to the mob?

Let's understand exactly when this law can be applied:

"Lawful contact" has a very broad meaning. A police officer is allowed to approach anyone and strike up a conversation, this is an example of one type of lawful contact. If there is something suspicious about the subject's behavior, it can be used as reasonable suspicion to detain a subject in order to ascertain if there is a crime being committed.  

Stat, to address your point: Any officer can use this law to initiate a "stop for verification of citizenship" on any subject, with a little creative report writing. Indeed, the officer will be applauded if he uses it against people of all colors and ethnic backgrounds, as he won't be racially profiling.

Of course, once he has reasonable suspicion to detain (not arrest) a subject, he is allowed to do a search "for weapons, to protect both himself and the detainee"... and you can imagine how it will go from there.

This is tantamount to carte blanche authority to stop anyone at will.

Now, I'm not saying all cops are bad. Just like every other group you can divide people into, there are good and bad. This law is written badly enough that you could drive a Mack truck through the holes...

But, maybe it will get the feds off their collective   and do something about the issue. I'm against illegal immigration, but I'm also against stupid legislation that can be easily misused.

[rickh]

well, no matter who is right or wrong on this.... it is getting national coverage and many of those in power are showing their true colors either way. Personally, I do not think the law will ever see the light of day with the court cases already going on... but it is waking up the people and causing them to discuss it... a good thing. For way too many years, people have ignored the problems.

We, as biker-types, go thru profiling all the time... any of you in the Kingman area remember the run into town a few months back? It was because of discrimination/profiling of bikers... the law does this because supposedly bikers are bad, so they only stopped the ones looking like bikers and not every vehicle on the roads there. Here in AZ, the vast majority of illegals are from Mexico... a known fact. So why the difference in profiling? I dont know.

I heard today that the boycott from San Fran against AZ might backfire and cost San Fran jobs.... haha, cracks me up. Now a movement has started nationally to support AZ businesses, which may be the best thing out of this since our economy is crap here. One lady somewhere outside of AZ started a boycott of "Arizona Iced Tea"... she didnt know it isnt made here, but in NY...

Good discussion, guys.

[brichter]

I heard today that the boycott from San Fran against AZ might backfire and cost San Fran jobs.... haha, cracks me up.

Welcome to my nightmare...

[rickh]

Well, I have people contacting me for Arizona companies they can use.... to counter any boycott.....

[tacman]

So if the race or ethnic background is a main characteristic of the problem, then because we are such a "We are the world" mentality, then PC dictates we can't profile by race? Thats a sad commentary. Arizona is not being overrun by illegal Bosnians, although I'm sure there are some there. JMHO

 Dan (tacman)

[rickh]

tacman.... we have a load of legal and illegal ones from the middle east also.... but notice how quiet they are staying. Those screaming foul are either mexicans or liberal citizens (for the most part).

I support the law and look forward to the court cases to fine tune it if needed. I and my friends will be watching if/when it goes into effect.

[tacman]

I don't begrudge anyone for wanting to come to the USA, who wouldn't? There are rules and regulations for doing it legally, though. I find it funny that now they are not ILLEGAL immigrants, they are undocumented workers. Strange how you can't call them illegal, which is a fact, but we now call them undocumented WORKERS which is unsubstantiated. If they are ALL workers, why are so many collecting government assistance. Oh, and as I stated before, I am really tired of immigrants, legal or illegal REFUSING to assimilate to the country they so DEARLY want to be in, even if it means breaking the law. That statement covers all ethic backgrounds and nationalities.

 Dan (tacman)

[rickh]

well, I feel we should also ignore the hookers and drug dealers that abound if we are going to avoid illegals. When they were pushing for shaded structures for the day workers, we pushed for the same for the hookers and dealers in Phoenix.... that didnt go over well, but we made our point.

[jay]

My 2c on the issue is that the US spends a ton of money pushing out their borders that could be better spent elsewhere.
When I fly from Canada to the US I go though immigration in Canada, Same deal when I fly in to the US from Europe.
I go through immigration in Europe. Just the cost to house all those immigration officers in those foreign places alone not to mention over 2500 border points.

Would it not make much more sense to create 5 or 6 points of (air) entry into the US ?

And why guard the Canadian Border ??? is Canada a Terror threat (South Park does not count) It would be my conjecture that you eliminate the check points that don't matter and spend your money on the ones that do. Ie expand the points of entry from the US-5 to say 10 and ensure a consistent level of screaning.

Right now they don't have the money to scan even 1% of all Sea-containers -- gee if I was trying to smuggle something into the country would I try and bring in a bottle of discount liquor in my trunk or heaven forbid more than my duty free allowance or would I do it by the unchecked container full....

There is some internet jokes that pertain to the ability to track a cow and document its every meal - this relates back to the BSE(mad cow) scare of 2004, but our inability to track 2mm illegals.

I see no reason why a person could not be issued a US-PASS with a number on it. Thay way they could track how many visitors they have in the country at any given time. Right now no one has a clue.
Post 911 they fingerprint and retna scan evey european coming into the country but do they count when they leave or have them "check out" nope.... all they got is this huge database of useless information about people they don't even know if are still in the country.

When I was working in Japan I was issued a card that was inserted into my passport. It stated when I entered the county, where I was staying and when I was leaving. If for some reason I was over due they started to track me down.

The technoligy is there why not slip on a ankle bracelet to all visitors, after all Martha Stewart made these fashionable. I am sure there would not be anyone who wouldn't want to turn these in when they left....

[brichter]

Listen pal, we've all heard about you crazies up there with your Labatt's and Moosehead! You're damn right you're a terror threat, heck, a lot of you even speak French!



 

[jay]

Don't get me started on the French......

We had this whole Quebec separest movement. The province of Quebec who make up the majority of the french speakers in Canada wanted to suscide from Canada.
1. They wanted none of the national debt.
2. They wanted to continue Federal transfer payments (money transferred from the feds to the provincial goverments) but wanted to collect and keep their own Federal tax returns.
3. Wanted to continue to force French on the rest of the country (right now every package has to display both national languges, all goverment documents etc). I have even heard of a French speaker getting off of a failure-to stop ticket because the sign was not in both national languages).
4. Wanted to continue to use Canadian Currency.

I always mantained that it should be illegal for a member of a soverign nation to susceede, however that same nation should be allowed to sell off its territories unilaterly. My suggestion is that we trade Quebec to the US, for two NFL franchises and the US already knows what to do with the French.....

[OhioGaming]

I seen this in an email today and after reading a few of the comments I thought I would see if it was posted on the internet ..

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/which-deserves-our-help-the-disabled-vet-or-illegal-alien/question-974661/?page=4

I hope this is not true ... if so it just isn't right.