Eprom Programmers

[edski]

Has anyone tried a TOP2005+ USB universal programmer?

Ed

[StatFreak]

This is one set of topics I wish had been saved.

I was able to find a part of one thread still cached on google on this topic. Here is what is left from the old site.

edski, check out reply 3 for starters.

SF

pinballwiz

   I need a chip burner - any recommendations?
« on: June 23, 2008, 08:57:13 AM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have an IGT S+ slot, PE+ poker, WMS Dotmation slot and some Williams pinballs.  I'm about to pick up a Bally GameMaker.  I think I have reached the time where I need to start burning my own chips.  I don't know much about doing this.  I would like to find a burner that can accommodate chips for all of these games, and is easy to use.  It should work under Windows XP or Vista and be somewhat idiot-proof    I'm on a budget right now, so hopefully they are not too expensive.

Someone here suggested some to me, but before get one, I wanted to touch base with the experts here, as well.

Can someone point me out to some decent models on eBay or such?

Thanks,
Rob
 
 

[StatFreak]

rickhunter

   Re: I need a chip burner - any recommendations?
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2008, 09:32:19 AM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What's your budget?

 

pinballwiz

   Re: I need a chip burner - any recommendations?
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2008, 09:37:14 AM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: rickhunter on June 23, 2008, 09:32:19 AM
What's your budget?


Well, I don't know.  Can I do this for $30, as there are some cheap ones on eBay for that much.  I'm not even sure what the range is.  This is for my own use, to occasionally burn chips.  I'm sure I won't be using it too often, so I'd rather not spend a fortune.  How much would I have to spend to get a decent one?

Rob

[StatFreak]

Jay

   Re: I need a chip burner - any recommendations?
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2008, 09:37:40 AM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have a TOP2005 burner. I bought it because it is USB based which means you avoid a bunch of problems that you can get with the ones that work parallel or serial ports. Generally speaking the PC world is going the way of USB so more likely than not it will work with Vista. I use mine with XP-PRO. It was also relatively cheap <$100. A USB interface is also a lot faster than a parallel port with a complete write, verify cycle taking about 8 seconds vs 20-30seconds via parallel port. With something like a PE+ where you are burning 5 or 6 chips for a set can add up.

I just have a S+ and PE+ and so this burner does it for me with one exception. The PE+ in particular has a chip called a caprom - this is apparently a older chip that my Eprom burner does not read or write and most modern day burners do not. its also my understanding that blanks are not even made anymore. Luckily there are only a handful of caproms and you can pretty much run any game.

I have been told that my burner is not capable of writing the larger chips 1mb 2mb etc that are needed for a game maker and the likes. The newest games however are now using Simms which are not burnable so I am not sure that when I actually buy a game maker or game king that I would want one of the mid-life ones that use eproms as I fathom that I would have a hard time gettting the newer games for them anyways. I am not sure what chips your WMS and Pinballs use so I can't comment here.

Some of the newer chips also require a higher voltage than what can be mustered out of a USB port so some of the newer burner also have DC power supplies to suplement.

As you might guess my TOP2005 has been replaced with a 2007 and I think 2008 and possibly newer models.

Finally I can say I don't care much for the software but for my needs of backing up a chip - reading, storing, and then rewriting it does the job, including offsets so I can use alternate chips to the orginals. Ie I use 27c512's for most everything vs buying 27c64's, 27c256's etc. That way I can buy in bulk.

There are also some good threads here on the forum that you might want to read through on the topic of EPROM burners (use the search button) as a good number have been reviewed.

[StatFreak]

rickhunter

   Re: I need a chip burner - any recommendations?
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2008, 09:53:49 AM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
for $30 about the only thing you can get is a Willem Dual power type that uses the parallel port.  It has it's quirks, but it works. I personally use on, though if I was buying one now, I'd probably get the USB based one for around $80.00.

This one is the parallel port version (which may or may not work under vista, I have not tried it)
http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=3081

This one is the USB version which should work with just about anything:
http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4225

Both of these are "open frame" type burners (it's just a PCB board, no box, etc), but they are about as economical as you can get, and if you don't do many eproms, then it's not abad purchase.  These can do 16 bit chips with an adapter (around $30.00 or so)

This one is the TOP 2007 that Jay was referring to, I don't believe these will do 16bit chips (S2000/Gameking/Igame), but I could be wrong.

[StatFreak]

r273

   Re: I need a chip burner - any recommendations?
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2008, 11:32:39 AM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I run the cheaper one too. Like Rick said it has it's quirks but has made all the ones I need for S+ and S-2000. The S-2000 takes up to 40 pin EPROMs, so you need to check how many pins
on the EPROMs you want to burn. I got a 40/42 pin adaptor to burn some base and key chips for the S-2000. Here is my list of EPROMs I burn.

24C16          Mother Board      (  8 Bit, 24 Pin, Accounting & configuration)   
27C64          SS Reel Chip       (  8 Bit, 28 Pin)
27C256        VFD chip.            ( 8 Bit, 28 Pin Use 27C512 use off set 8000)
27C512-90   SS Reel Chip        (  8 Bit, 28Pin, w/ offset 0xC000 & 0x2000 on programmer)       
27C512-90   SP Game chip      (  8 Bit, 28 Pin)  “     â€œ         â€œ                “                  “
27C801-10   GME 1 & 2 chips   (  8 Bit, 32 Pin, remove J3 jumper to J4 6 & 7 pins. Also
                                                     27C040, 27C080, 27C8001)   
27C1001      Version Chip        (  8 Bit, 32 Pin,  jurisdictional also 27C010)*
27C4001-90 DBV  200 chip      (  8 Bit, 32 Pin) 
27C4001-90 WBA 1B chips      (  8 Bit, 32 Pin)
27C4002      SBase chip          (16 Bit, 40 Pin also 27C240, & 27C4069)*
27C4002      Key chip             (16 Bit, 40 Pin also 27C240, & 27C4069)*
27C4002      Ram Clear chip     (16 Bit, 40 Pin also 27C240, & 27C4069)*
27C8001      GME 1 & 2 chips   (  8 Bit, 32 Pin also 27C040, 27C080 & 27C801) *
29F040B-90 Card Reader Chip   (  4 Bit, 32 Pin, used in Bally Mastercom 250)
PIC16C55A-047P Dem. Label    (  8 Bit, 28 Pin, 4MHz 512x12, one time programming)
<Edit> Bit numbers.
Also here is what it looks like. The main part I put on a cushioned wood block to make it easier to handle.
The draw back on mine is it does not have a USB connection ($30.00 one). So I have an old computer with a printer port
I use just for burning and files. I would recommend the USB type if you don't have an old computer around.
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Misc. Slot Pics 018 (Medium).jpg (116.29 KB, 800x533 - viewed 169 times.)

 Misc. Slot Pics 019 (Medium).jpg (116.8 KB, 800x533 - viewed 166 times.)
 

Note: The above pictures were lost.

[StatFreak]

DJH

   Re: I need a chip burner - any recommendations?
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2008, 11:45:50 AM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to note the TOP2005 works with Vista, I have tried it and it works.
 

[StatFreak]

CaptainHappy

   Re: I need a chip burner - any recommendations?
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2008, 01:22:57 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: rickhunter on June 23, 2008, 09:53:49 AM
for $30 about the only thing you can get is a Willem Dual power type that uses the parallel port.  It has it's quirks, but it works. I personally use on, though if I was buying one now, I'd probably get the USB based one for around $80.00.

This one is the parallel port version (which may or may not work under vista, I have not tried it)
http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=3081

This one is the USB version which should work with just about anything:
http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4225

Both of these are "open frame" type burners (it's just a PCB board, no box, etc), but they are about as economical as you can get, and if you don't do many eproms, then it's not abad purchase.  These can do 16 bit chips with an adapter (around $30.00 or so)

This one is the TOP 2007 that Jay was referring to, I don't believe these will do 16bit chips (S2000/Gameking/Igame), but I could be wrong.


I have used the programmers that are mentioned above, except for the TOP models....

I do think that Rick is correct that the TOP models do not do the chips required for S2K GameKing AND IGame/+. Here is a list of the supported chips on the Top 2007 for folks to reference:
http://www.mcumall.com/moreTop2007SupportedList.htm

I started on the Parallel port version, and then migrated to the USB GQ-2X version (new laptop does not have parallel port.) which requires dip switch changes when you do different chips, and finally I just changed (about a week or two ago.) to the GQ-3X which is also USB and now has no dipswitches. This model is the one that I like best now.... It does not autodetect eprom types, but all that you have to do is select the eprom type from a menu, and you are then ready to go. (Some expensive programmers autodetect the chip, but that is on more costly models.$$$) The USB models are   light speed   faster than the parallel models, and I would spend the extra money for them as you have better chances that they will work in the various operating systems. Rick is correct that they are worth the extra $ given the USB benefits of speed and compatibility.

Look at their webpage at http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4225 and scroll down to the bottom where it says: Programming Speed Comparison Examples:
Read this and see the speed differences. (IT would not cut and paste in its nice table format.)

A special note if you are planning on doing the 16 bit 40 pin eproms that are needed for S2K, GK and IG+, you will need an adapter for the programmer. They have a couple, one is about $20, and the other is about $30..... I have the $20 version that used to cost $30.   See below. You can always start with the base USB model programmer, and then get the adapter later when you need it, but I say bite the bullet and avoid the extra shipping costs for the later purchase. That combo will do almost anything you ever need to read and burn for backup puposes.   

http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=3169

http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4249

I am not sure if they will give you a small discount or not, but you can always ask and say that you were referred by Mark (CaptainHappy - Admin at NewLifeGames dot net.) The person's name is John Zhang and he can be reached at their support@mcumall dot com email address - not spelled out completely due to spammers.

Also the open frame, circuit card only doesn't cause any problems for me. I am probably going to eventually mount it on a piece of plexiglass with some standoffs just to add some protection, but it is not critical if you watch what it is placed on. They now have a couple of foam strips on the bottom, most likely to prevent accidental shorts on the bottom solder side of the board.

Just my opinion from experience. I hope that this helps?

CaptainHappy   

[StatFreak]

CaptainHappy

   Re: I need a chip burner - any recommendations?
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2008, 01:27:05 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looks like Ron - R273 and I have the same idea.... Mark your ZIF socket with a SHARPIE marker!!! Don't want to put the chip in backwards!   

BRILLIANT MINDS think alike!!!   

I have the same 16-bit adapter as you, but mine is marked by the sharpie!   

CH
 

[StatFreak]

ricker
Contributing Gold NLG Member.

   Re: I need a chip burner - any recommendations?
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2008, 01:33:36 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since everyone is submitting their programmers, here's the one I use for my Gamemaker, and is the only chips I have used it for. Duel powered, enhanced Willem. Never had a problem.  The question is, What is the gambling thing under the programmer?
 

Note: Strikeout refers to a picture that is missing.

[StatFreak]

tacman

   Re: I need a chip burner - any recommendations?
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2008, 06:16:42 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jay, I also have a TOP2005 and have burned 1,2,& 4 meg chips for my Gamemaker with no problems at all. I have also burned 8 meg eprom for WMS with no problems. I use my laptop and have only encountered a hub power surge error when attempting to read or write 40 pin SB chips. Gonna try it on the desktop to see if there is a difference.

Dan (tacman)
 

[StatFreak]

CaptainHappy

   Re: I need a chip burner - any recommendations?
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2008, 07:55:21 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: tacman on June 23, 2008, 06:16:42 PM

Jay, I also have a TOP2005 and have burned 1,2,& 4 meg chips for my Gamemaker with no problems at all. I have also burned 8 meg eprom for WMS with no problems. I use my laptop and have only encountered a hub power surge error when attempting to read or write 40 pin SB chips. Gonna try it on the desktop to see if there is a difference.

 Dan (tacman)

Dan,

What is the part number of the 40 pin part you are trying to program? I do not think the TOP models do the parts requird for the SB chips from looking at the supported devices listings, and that may be the problem. Some of the part numbers (16-bit 4 meg) that I know of are Hitachi HN27C4096, generic 27C4002, generic 27C240(?) and AMD 27C4096 which are all 16-bit eproms. All of the other eproms that you mentioned are 8-bit eproms, and I wonder if there are power differences that caused the surge. 27C040, 27C4001 are all 8-bit, and will not work for S2K, GameKing, and I-Game which require 16-bit eproms for Base or Key chips. (KEY, CLEAR, SB..., M...., and I....) You may want to post on the forums at MCUMALL to verify if the TOP models can support 16-bit chips??? I could be wrong about all of this, so someone please tell me if I am so that I know.

Regards,

CH
 

[StatFreak]

Foster

   Re: I need a chip burner - any recommendations?
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2008, 07:59:42 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I like my Easy Pro 90B

Small and and enclosed USB with AC Adapter

Forrhouse

   Re: I need a chip burner - any recommendations?
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2008, 08:26:05 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have Xeltek Super Pro 3000U. It does almost everything under the sun and has worked great for me.
See pic below.
 

DJH

   Re: I need a chip burner - any recommendations?
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2008, 08:55:47 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I went for a german made programmer called BX40 - http://www.batronix.com/

Does 8MB EPROMS in 1 min and about 30 seconds for a 4MB and so on

[StatFreak]

Jay

   Re: I need a chip burner - any recommendations?
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2008, 02:01:19 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I haven't tried anything other than my 27c512's and until I get a game maker, king, magic, etc that requires something different I am pleased with my platform.

I was just told they would not do the 16 bit sorts. I haven't tried.

[Foster]

I will add that the EasyPRO 90B or newer is a great programmer
No adapter needed for standard DIP style chips.

I will say that many of these may not work under 64 bit versions of Windows XP or Vista. I know the the EasyPRO 90B wont under 64 bit Vista.
Only has a 32 bit driver.

[uniman]

Nice save StatFreak!

I have a "True-USB Willem Universal Programmer GQ-2X" purchased from www.mcumall.com
Inexpensive and good for home use. This one has dip switch settings. I think the 3X doesn't have the dip switch.

Used mostly to read/write 2732's to 27c512's, the small stuff. Used the heck out of it and still going strong. Connected to an old IBM thinkpad with XP.

One thing I have noticed. Most of these programmers will not write to TMS2732's. Why???
Whenever purchasing 2732's, I avoid the TMS2732's. 

[edski]

Good job STAT!!!
I wonder how much other info is still floating around the Interworld.

Ed

[StatFreak]

Good job STAT!!!
I wonder how much other info is still floating around the Interworld.

Ed

Not that much.   Google has 39 links.

When you think about it, the top five posters alone had 16,000 -- Jay and Rick had over 4k each and I had 3.5k, Ozzy had 2.5k, and idesign had 2k . That's just the five of us. There were at least 30 to 40 thousand posts. Cez't La Vie

[Op-Bell]

I have a "True-USB Willem Universal Programmer GQ-2X" purchased from www.mcumall.com
Inexpensive and good for home use. This one has dip switch settings. I think the 3X doesn't have the dip switch.

Used mostly to read/write 2732's to 27c512's, the small stuff. Used the heck out of it and still going strong. Connected to an old IBM thinkpad with XP.

One thing I have noticed. Most of these programmers will not write to TMS2732's. Why???
Whenever purchasing 2732's, I avoid the TMS2732's.

I have a Wellon VP280 that I bought from MCUmall - it's a great little USB unit for $140. I went for that model because it can do 40 pin EPROMS, useful for set chips and Aristocrat games, and also microcontrollers, programmable logic (GALs), 8 pin serial chips and other odd stuff that I deal with all the time.

The short answer to the 2732 question is, they have a non-standard pinout. The long answer is ...

The TMS2732 came out while the EPROM family technology was still in early development. EPROMs were an American invention, by Intel, and for some years there were no foreign competitors. The 2708 (1k by 8) needed three power supplies - 5V, 12V and -5V. So did the very first generation of American 2716 (2k by 8). The Japanese entered the market about that time with a single 5V supply version, which they called the 2716. You can probably see some potential for confusion here. Texas Instruments (TI) brought out a single supply 2716 and called it a TMS2516. Then they produced a 4k EPROM which they called a 2732 (the TMS2732),  but they figured they would make the pin arrangement more logical and everyone would have to fall in line because they were the Biggest Chip Company in the World. I was working in design at that time and I well remember the confusion in production, and having to cut and link tracks on the PCB to accommodate these fcuking TI chips because the parts list just said "2732 (any)" and the supplier fitted TMS2732. TI eventually saw reason and brought out a standard pinout 2732, which they called a TMS2532. But by that time the orders had gone out to purchasing departments everywhere, on no account buy any Texas Instruments EPROMs.

By such mistakes, entire markets are lost.

[stayouttadabunker]

my goodness Op.....you MUST have grey hair now!




(just kidding)

[Op-Bell]

my goodness Op.....you MUST have grey hair now!

Heh, I went grey 20 years ago. Now it's pure white, what's left of it.

[uniman]

Thanks for the eprom history lesson on the TMS2732 Op-Bell. 

[Joeylc]

Has anyone tried a TOP2005+ USB universal programmer?

Ed

Time to revisit this topic.. 

We have done the TOP2005 the card looking programmers and the logical programmer..  in short they are all JUNK!!!! 

Now before every one gets up in arms ..   

If you are only doing 2 or 3 Proms a month sure the TOP2005 will do the job some what 
But what a pain in the A$$ it is to get it to stay on line and not to dump right in the middle of a burn 

Last year we dumped the TOPMAX and picked up a UniMax and a Ee-rom-u8 from action-electronics eetools (see pic below)

Hands Down this is the best programmer we have ever used it will do up to 48 pin roms in 15 sec 
I know it's a bit pricey but as they say you get what you pay for....

Just my 2 cents 

http://www.action-electronics.com/eprom.htm#Unimax


 

[stayouttadabunker]

Is this a good eprom burner for someone that has a few S+'s and wants to make backups of games?
I found it at MCUMall...I'm NOT about to go out and spend $550 bucks for a reader/burner...

[Foster]

I wish I had purchased that one.

I purchased the EasyPRO 90B right before that one came out.