Bally Model 1019 Big Win Penny Machine Hopper Over Pay

[golflover]

I was playing my Big Win machine today and noticed that when I got 1 cherry which should pay 12 coins, it paid 18. I figured glitch and kept playing. When I hit 2 cherries and it should pay 30  coins it paid 36. I continued playing and finally hit 4 oranges which should pay 240 coins, the machine paid 360. I looked in my EM book and it does not specifically address hopper overpay as an issue, just gives rebuilding adjusting etc. I am not sure of the exact  adjustment that should be made, specifically at the hopper or somewhere else on the machine. I'm a little leery of just plunging into it and screwing it up totally. Thanks in advance for suggestions and assistance.

[golflover]

I played the machine today and now it does not payout on any winning combinations. I pushed on the carriiage assembly and the hopper energized and paid coins til I released it.  I Have reseached here and looked at my Mead book. I believe it could be the zero stop or the payout circut board according to OldReno's post. The book states to use transmission fluid as a lubricant. Is there anything better or newer that is used for lubrication? Are there any companies that make after market parts for the EM?

[OldReno]

Make sure your hopper is resetting after handle pull.  The giveaway is the winner paid light staying on.
If it's not resetting, it won't pay, or will pay progressively shorter and shorter.  Pull out the hopper after handle spin and see where your hopper payboard wipers are.  They should be back at zero position.
The overpay sounds like the hopper wipers are misadjusted (zero stop), or not enough tension on the torsion spring on your white 100-tooth gear behind the payboard.
Probably the former, but it could be something else entirely....

[golflover]

Thanks Oldreno, I'll get to this weekend, finally off duty for a bit.. The over pay was 6 coins on the 1 and 2 cherry wins.. was not a big deal since it was jusst me playing it. The 120 over on the 240 win concerned me. But now it has stopped paying all together and  i like things to work right. hopefullly it is an easy fix.

[golflover]

I aatached a photo of the hopper. I pulled it from the machine after a few spins. After a pay the winner paid light did not stay on, so it must be resetting. The fingers are sitting on the contact that has a 2 on it. The contact to the left has a C0 on it but it appears that it is not returning to the zero stop? I need to get a better camera it loses detail close up. 

[OldReno]

well, it looks ok to me as per the photo, and it looks back to zero.
With a pay on the reels, pull forward on the little silver horseshoe guy (carriage) and see if that starts the pay.
Also check the tension on your payboard wipers.  Put a small screwdriver under them, and see if they make a solid snap sound when they fall off the driver.
Check also the innermost finger, which is power for the payboard (the Feed)
If that don't work, then wiggle your reels a little bit with a pay on it to see if your reel wipers are out of alignment.
Let us know if that provides any relief, if not, I've got some aspirin, and more time to help get it fixed.

[golflover]

Thanks Reno!!!!  I'll work on those things a little later.. we're under a tornado and severe thunderstorm warning here until 11pm tonight. Not a good idea to be playing with the elecetric right now.   Just got my hottub cleaned and refilled right before it let loose and lit up the sky. So dark here the street lights came on at 2pm in the afternoon.  least the hot tub is inside the garage and everything is on ground fault breakers. Will let you know how I make out.. Thanks again!

[golflover]

Got to work on the machine today.  I pulled the hopper and looked at the payout board. Looks in good shape. I started up the machine got 2 cherries after a couple of spins and nothing. I opened the machine and pulled forward on the carriage assembly  and it payed the 12 coins for the 2 cherries and stopped. SO I figured I would look at the reel wiper arms now. I looked in my Mead book and it stated to pull the locking levers forward and just pull the reel assembly forward. I tried this and it will not budge. I pulled hard enough where the machine started to come forward, so I quit. The left side seems loose enough to come forward, the right side seems stuck in place. Am I missing another lock mechanism? Any suggestions as always appreciated.

[OldReno]

Glad the tornados didn't get ya.
To remove the reel mech, drop both latch levers, and with the handle fully up, you should be able to get that mech out.  If handle is down, it will not pull out.
Sometimes those beau plugs stick, so you might try to put a large flatblade screwdriver up between the bottom of the mech, and the pan and with not too much pressure see if you can pry it out.  after you remove it, visually check the pins on the plug, and you may have to bend one or more of them back into a better position.
also, you can set up pays easily on the machine by pulling the handle, then stopping the clock fan with your finger, and setting up a pay on the center line.  Hold the reels in place, and release the fan and presto, instant pay.  Alternately, you can partially pull the handle, and then pull the reels forward (down) and put up a pay that way.
Have you had the reel mech out of this machine before?
Since it did pay when you pulled on the hopper carriage, then let's assume that is where the problem is.
Keep us posted.

[golflover]

Hey Reno:

Nope Tornados were an hour south of me. JJust alot of thunder, wind and lightning around here. No I have never had the need to take  the reels out of this machine til now. Old addage if it ain;t broke. I will  want to get it out now just to check things and prolly clean it up allittle.  Since it paid while pulling on the carriage the exact amount, I was not sure if it was the hopper or the reels. Will keep you posted.

[max bet]

I had a random overpay a few years back on my 1019 Big Win.  What I did was pull the hopper out of the machine, and manually stepped and reset various pays while visually watching the finger locations in the payout disc. I wanted to verify my problem was mechanical and not electrical.  I found that my payout counter would occasionally skip (not increment).  Problem solved when I replaced a very worn 100 tooth gear. 

[golflover]

The gear on mine looks good. Of course when I put the hopper back in the machine it did not payout and now I cannot get it to payout manually by hitting the carriage. Looks like a tear down project in the making. But i will learn alot.

[Jim]

you can test the hopper out of the machine to see if everything is working. you can use the step-up coil to advance the ratchet assembly and the reset coil to reset the counter back to zero. you can do this several times and observe if the zero stop is holding the switch open. this is the part that most people will fashion an eraser to substitute for it.



if everything seems to be alright on the hopper, the relay on the backof the hopper will cause the condition of not paying , there is a set of contacts that is normally closed and sets up the hopper pay circuit. I would check this out.

Jim

[golflover]

Thnaks Jim!! Hopefully I'll get some quiet time on the bench tonight to take a look at this, over a nice single malt and a good cigar 

[golflover]

Well upon further review it looks like I will have to tear down the hopper. It only pays if I manually pull the carriage handle. I read the Mead book, but they do not show the stop or as some call it here the pencil eraser? Reno i am hoping you can give me a better location for this stop before I start dtaking it apart. I just want to make sure I am llooking in the right area. Thanks in advance.

[OldReno]

Golflover,
We can assume it is a hopper problem, since when you tug on the carriage it will pay.
If sounds like your pay fingers are resetting too far, and end up being off of the start of the pay tabs. Look and see when reset that they are touching the beginning of the pay tabs.  Check the tension on all your payboard wipers, this includes not only the spiral gear pay tabs, but also your two sets of outboard wipers,  See if they snap back when you pull on them.
To check the former, pull the handle and set up a pay.
Then, pull out the hopper and step the payboard one step.  Push hopper back in.  That should tell you if your fingers are resetting too far back, as if that is the case, it will immediately start to pay.

Also, since I forgot to send it off yesterday, I am adding what I wrote then about your pay problems below:

golflover,
Hopper not paying:
1. It will not pay if you have inserted coin, and handle has not been pulled.  Coin in kills part of the pay circuits.
2. It will not pay, or will underpay, if the payboard has not reset the wiper fingers.
e.g., it will short pay by 3 coins on 2 cherries, if it has already paid for single cherry and not reset.  The hopper resets when you pull the handle.  IF the hopper has not reset, the winner paid light will stay on. 
You can manually reset a pay by reaching in on the left side of the reels and pushing fully back the variator assembly above the clock and fan.  The bar with the big spring attached.  This will close your B switches, and immediately reset the hopper. You can do this as many times as you like, and it should fully repay every time. Have your hand ready to catch the coins.

Golflover, has the machine paid ok in the past?
Is this a recent problem, or are you just getting used to the machine?
Before tearing it apart, check to be sure it's resetting.  Might not be a pay problem after all and instead a reset problem.

[golflover]

Morning Reno...

Didn;t get to work on it last night, work got in the way. I am thinking hopper problem as everything else seems to be working as normal. This machine did pay as normal before and I have never had a problem with it. This situation started 2 weeks ago with overpays. 3 coins, etc. Now it does not pay out at all. Unless, I get a pay and open the door and pulll forward on the carriage tab, it pays the correct amount for the pay. I had pulled the hopper, checked the wiper arms, they are loose and spring back. I was thinking tehy were stuck, but that does not appear to be the case. I will look at the variator assembly and the "B" switches as i am not familiar with those yet.  will also get the pay set up pulll the hopper and and push the step one step forward as you suggest. llet me ask this just to make sure I am doing it right. To advance the paybooard one step, I have been pushing down on the forward rod on top of the payboard setup, a rod with a spring .. This advances the wipers on the payboard, is that the correct way to advance the arms? or is there a another way? Thanks again!

[golflover]

OK am back from vacation and golf.. back onto the hopper project since it didn't fix itself while I was gone..   All switches appear to be working as normal so I am thinking it is the "stop" . I have looked thru my mead book and they do not show a picture of the actual "eraser" stop. so I am unsure as to exactly it is located on the hopper.