New to me 16mhz Triple Dollars questions

[Paladin]

I picked up a 3CM Triple Dollars game with a bad battery, and got it running last night.  I used a clear chip from my 10mhz Money Storm to clear a pesky 61 error that wouldn't go away after the battery change.  The game is set for half dollars and I don't have any, but I was able to get it to register quarters so I could get it to spin.  I'm going to the bank today to swap a few rolls of quarters for half dollars to do further playing - I mean testing.

The reel chip is SS4788, and the game chip is SP1019.

The one odd thing I noticed so far is that the reels wouldn't spin unless I had 3 credits on the game.  Is that an option setting?  Does anyone have a PAR for SP1019?
I was also not expecting the sounds to be different.  Searching here after getting it running did turn up info on different sounds and speaker static that can be found on 16mhz games.  Now that I have a decent camera I might make a video of the game in action.

I had made a post in the classified section looking for some parts including a volume pot as the board is missing it, but then I found info that the 16mhz boards don't use it.  I dodn't know how to delete a post, so I changed it to 'nevermind' until I put some coins in it and figure out everything I need.

There's doesn't seem to be much info here on 16mhz games.  Would it be advisable to just replace the board with a 10mhz that can run the same theme?  I guess I'll know more after I run some coins through it, including if the speaker static I've read about is a problem.  I only managed a couple spins until I hit an 'any bar' win and got an empty hopper error, but I do notice a fairly loud hum from the speaker when the game is turned on and the game sound volume was pretty low.

Tom

[stayouttadabunker]

The hum from your speakers....try to separate the
speaker wires from higher voltage wires if possible.
Keep them away from any transformers that may be
introducing electrical noise into the lines.
Check the contacts too...dirty contacts make noise.
Also, try a different outlet for the machine...could be something there too.

Check out the SP document I've uploaded below
for your options and settings>>>

[jay]

The 16mhz humm is a well known problem on the S+ machines. If you keep everthing the same and swap to a 10mhz board the humm goes away (perhaps it knows the words).
In a real casino there is enough noise around that this is not a problem.

I don't remember the exact solution but there were two fixes presented. The first was to use a Cap across the speaker leads (sorry I don't remember the value).
The second was  to run a 1K resistor from the negative speaker terminal to ground. I seem to remember that this faded the noise considerbly but did not eliminate it.

I actually think that a cross over circuit like that is used to separate the Tweeter from the midrange, from the Bass would do the trick by eliminating a certain noise frequency.
This is built with a coil and a cap. Try googling cross overs.

[stayouttadabunker]

Or....
You could run the speaker wires into an equalizer and adjust the gain out to the speakers?
Might be a little expensive and time consuming though....

Or....
You could buy about 12 more machines, turn them all on and invite a bunch of friends over?
Might be a little noisy though....betcha you won't hear any humming...

[knagl]

Or you could spend about $20 and get a 10mhz board and be done with it.   

Keep in mind that the SP chip you have is for a 16mhz board -- you'd need a different SP chip for a 10mhz board.  ...and your SS chip is a stinker -- 87% -- you might want to upgrade that, too. 

[Paladin]

OK, I just got some half dollars and played a few games.  I haven't changed any settings yet (big thanks for the sheet Stout!), but found that the handle needs adjustment as it doesn't always spin the reels.  Everything else seems to be working fine, except that I need a set chip for the validator.  I'll swap my Money Storm into it later to see if the validator has any issues.

This is the first time I've played with half dollars, and I've got to say that the size and feel of the coins is pretty cool.  Even though it's in my house I feel like a high roller now!

[knagl]

I'll swap my Money Storm into it later to see if the validator has any issues.

Be aware, the SP chip you have in there right now supports Type 0, 1, 4, and 5.  Money Storm is a Type 2 game.  The SP chip you have for your Money Storm game might not support a 16mhz board.  You can look it up in the SP/ST list post that is a sticky post here in the S+ category.

[Paladin]

What I did was put the entire Money Storm game board in the machine, not just the game chip.  The static/hum went away, so the source is definatley the Triple Dollars board.  The other interesting thing is that even with the sound all the way up (set to 1 for loud, and 9 for quiet) the game is not that loud at all.  You can still hear the hum over the game sounds.  I took a video, but I didn't have the reel spin music on.  I went to make another one and forgot that I started a load of wash in the next room.  It would have sounded like the game was on the spin cycle!

Tom

OK, here's a video:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/sk-zlJNqiTk&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/sk-zlJNqiTk&rel=0</a>

[jay]

Its the 16mhz boards not the chips.

WHat was being pointed out is that game chips that are designed for 16mhz boards will not work in a 10mhz board.

The 10mhz board has dip switches and a volume nob on it. The 16mhz do not. To change volume you use the self-test menu.
So the game chip designed for 16mhz will not work on a 10mhz (and vice versa).

You can change all the chips you want on the 16mhz board or swap it with another 16mhz board and the buzz/humm will still be there.

The dampering techniques of a reistor to ground are your best hope. Its a design flaw.

[stayouttadabunker]

In the morning I will take a video of a 16Mhz game board with the volume OFF.
You will see that some of the the humming comes from the 1, 2,or all 3 of the stepper reels motors.
Remember, we're dealing with very old machines with non-ageless sealed steel bearings
that tried to ward off hours and years of cigarette smoke and countless hours of wear and tear.

Jay is also very correct in that the 16Mhz boards were designed very poorly,  sound-wise.
I'm suspecting that there may be some traces on these boards that were placed way too close
to higher voltage traces creating crossovers of noise - especially when the stepper motors are in action.

I'm only guessing and spewing theories that whenever the stepper motors are receiving signals
from the MPU and are being energized to spin the reels - there is a "electronic wave cross-over"
( for lack of a better terminology) between traces too closely spaced and are
unprotected from each others interference.
Therefore, the end result is the speakers humming.

Due to my lack of board design training - I have no clue if I'm just spouting a mile of hogwash or not
and have no technical proof of this phenomenon.
However, it does sound logical, no?
If anyone has a remotely better clue as to what is really happening -
please enlighten us with your theories...
Because I can pile bull as high as my house anytime!

[Brianzz]

that is really quiet even for a 16 meg board. I would trace the speaker wires to make sure they're all connected, it's just way too quiet, someone may have resistored it in the past. Just remember if you find a speaker unhooked or resistored get ready for alot of hum.

[stayouttadabunker]

I agree !
Let's take this food for thought...
Make pretend you have a funnel and pour water into it...
the water is wide as year head on top but comes out as small as your pinky finger on the bottom.

Now, imagine a speaker wire that has about 28 tiny, little strands of wire and
only two strands are actually touching the the connector tab.

That could  be source of the problem as well...it's very hard to see because
the strands are hidden with a vinyl/plastic covering.
The resistance of the speaker wires in question can be checked with a
multimeter with a probe at both ends.
The wire with the most resistance would probably be the culprit/suspect wire.

Throw this out the window....( Can I contradict myself? LOL )
Do you have another 16Mhz board to compare with?
How about reels? Are those the only ones you have?
They sell 'em on fleabay for about a dime a dozen.
okay, maybe a little more than a dime...
How about the speaker's paper cones?
Are they solidly attached and in one piece or are they tearing up?
Try another household outlet too!
That one might be too close to the stove and refrigerator.
If all fails, turn the music on the radio up and start dancing.

In order to troubleshoot and pinpoint right the to problem - you need to start swapping
known good parts  for "questionable" parts until you make THE discovery!

[Brianzz]

S+ reels are a dime a dozen, I'll take 40 dozen please.. thanks


You know while you're screwing around you should change the chips out to Triple Dollars with Mystery Reel Action.. spice it up a little bit

[jay]

The Humm is on all 16mhz boards.
Swap the board for a 10mhz it goes away.

It might be inductance due to a thin trace etc but if so its a design flaw that impacts the entire 16mhz series.

We can rule out that the sound issue is a problem with the amplification circuit since it does not occur with the 10mhz, subsequently it must be from the source.
You can dampen it at the speaker end otherwise you need to be looking at what we can do to the board to resolve the issue.

[stayouttadabunker]

Okay, here's my S+ video as promised with a 16Mhz board ( no volume pot)
and running a regular 3CM Double Diamond game.
I tried to concentrate the camera on the speaker.
I have the volume set at "4"...it's loud! 
I have junky old reels and I hear the stepper motors more than anything
but it's not coming out of the speakers - rather the stepper motors whining
is coming from the reel area instead I think.
I have terrible ears so I'll let you guys judge.>>>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Fr8dtepnOik&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/Fr8dtepnOik&rel=0</a>

[jay]

Bunko' as I have told you before your ears are just fine.....

[stayouttadabunker]

lol...looks a little bit like Chevy Chase...

[IFFV68]

Bunker,

If you get that hair out of your ears you may be able to hear a lot better.

Your color looks like you have been spending too much time on the Greens.
Have fun.

IFFV68

[stayouttadabunker]