Indentification, short pay, glass need & what's it

[wrkey]

New member and glad to have found this site!   Lots of great information here that has me tremedously!   So here's the story:  I acquired a Bally's EM slot machine that is set for nickle play although I think it is actually a converted $ machine... or at least the hopper is (according to the Into To Bally Slot Machines manual that I have).  I got this from someone who had no idea of what was wrong with it nor had the keys to open it.  A few calls got me a set of keys and I finally opened it to find.... everything there but dusty, dirty and covered with old sticky gunky grease.   Nothing worked as it should.

Since the start I have completely disassembled every component.  Cleaned every connection point.  Lubed what needed to be and oiled the rest.   Currently the machine works with only a few minor glitches that I am looking for help on.

Here's my problems.

1.  Short pay of one coin every time.  This is a three coin machine and the short pay is consistant with the number of coins paid. If 3 coins played then it under pays by 3 coins.  My research indicates that it may be the 'zero stop' adjustment.  Mine is the newer rubber bumer style on an adjustable bolt.  I did adjust this one half turn UP.  This made no difference to the short pay.  Maybe I didn't move it far enough or went the wrong way.   Is this the right place to adjust and I didn't adjust far enough or ?????

2.  The machine seems to have trouble when two coins are played.  Each coin will increase the coin count as is suspected and the coin lights add.  However when 2 coins are played the next coin added does not reset the coin count back to one.  If two coins are added then the 2nd coin actually jumps the coin count up to 3 coins.  This problem is VERY consistant so it's gotta be a very specific mechanicl issue.  Any suggestions of where I should look first?

3.  The first reel does not want to lock out one the spin causing the reel not to spin.  I "fixed" this by putting  thin metal clip on the lift bracket which then allowed the wiper timer latch to lock up until released by the clock.  I can't see where to adjust this 'slack' out.  Any ideas here?  I tried moving the long release arm to to another hole at the end (both directions) but that didn't resolve the problem.

A few more questions:  Can someone identify this machine model for me?  And date it if possible.  There is no model plate on this machine as the plate was replaced with a ad plate from the original seller.  Also, what is the function of the two reels in the last photo.  I think they are what controls the pay outs on multiple coins.  More info would be great!

Well, enough for now.  Thanks in advance  for any help!

Rusty

[wrkey]

The zero-stop was the problem.  I have the Pencil eraser type not the rubber disc and on mine the rubber had deteriated and 'swelled' up as it dryed out. It still functions ok.. but I had to back off (raise) the bumper stop 1 1/2 turns to get the pay out exact.

Now... any help on Model / age yet?  Inside my machine is written "Bitter Sweet Orange" if that helps.

One more question... is there an easy way to access the belly glass lamp with out taking the whole door apart?  That light blinks instead of staying on.

[Neonkiss]

I've never seen an orange Bally slot machine before, but I'm kinda liking it. 
Not sure if it was that way from Bally or if someone painted all the chrome.

Check for a data tag on the left hand side under the handle.
If it's there, it should have a date stamped into the very top of the tag in the black area.

[wrkey]

After some help (encouragement) from a member of PachiTalk I was able to locate the two screws that hold the belly glass light box on.  They are located along the top of the light box inside the door.  Remove these two, unplug the ballast wires and the box folds down for easy removal.

I think your right Neon, it does appear that this machine was repainted.  I think the 'name' written inside might be the name of the paint color used.  The paint is very thick and hard and I suspect it might be a power coat type.

I also think this is a model 1090 as was suggested by the same guy that help me get the light box off.

Thanks for everyone's interest and help!

[wrkey]

Found some info on Odds Calculation for slot machine and did the below on my machine.  I now have an excel spreadsheet that could be easily used/modify for other machines.  If anyone wants this, just PM me and I'll send it to you.

Bally Electro-Mechanical Slot Machine Model 1090 Odds Calculator                     

   No. of Reels   3               
   Stops / Reel   25               
   Total Stops    15,625                
   Overall Odds   90.30%               
                     
   1st            Stops      
Symbol   Coin Pay   Reel 1   Reel 2   Reel 3   Possible   Probablity   Return
7   300   1   1   1   1    0.0000640    1.92%
3 Bars   100   3   3   1   9    0.0005760    5.76%
2 Bars   50   4   3   3   36    0.0023040    11.52%
1 Bar   20   5   5   4   100    0.0064000    12.80%
Any Bar   10   12   11   8   911    0.0583040    58.30%
Non-Win   0   12   13   16    14,568     0.9323520    0.00%
               ChkSum    1.0000000    90.30%

[wrkey]

Sorry.. the copy/paste from Excel didn't go just right.  Hopefully the post is still understandable.

[StatFreak]

Found some info on Odds Calculation for slot machine and did the below on my machine.  I now have an excel spreadsheet that could be easily used/modify for other machines.  If anyone wants this, just PM me and I'll send it to you.
...

Sorry.. the copy/paste from Excel didn't go just right.  Hopefully the post is still understandable.

I fixed it for ya'.

Stat

<EDIT> I made a couple of small changes. The number of stops listed as non-wins was actually the number of blanks, which is different from the number of non-winning payouts. As an alternative, you could just remove that row and not indicate the number of blanks, since the table is meant to show the number of paying combinations, and not the number of symbols on each of the strips.
The number of mixed (Any) bar combinations is (correctly) listed as the product of the total number of bars on each reel less the number of winning combinations for each of the straight bar payouts.

Bally Electro-Mechanical Slot Machine Model 1090 Odds Calculator                     

   No. of Reels       3               
   Stops / Reel       25               
   Total Stops        15,625                
   Overall Payback   90.30%               
                     

	1st		Stops		total
Symbol	Coin Pay	Reel 1	Reel 2	Reel 3	combinations	Probablity	Return
7	300	1	1	1	1	0.0000640	1.92%
3 Bars	100	3	3	1	9	0.0005760	5.76%
2 Bars	50	4	3	3	36	0.0023040	11.52%
1 Bar	20	5	5	4	100	0.0064000	12.80%
Blanks	0	12	13	16
Any Bar	10	12	11	8	911	0.0583040	58.30%
non-wins	0				14,568	0.9323520	0.00%
					ChkSum	1.0000000	90.30%

[wrkey]

Awesome!   Thanks!

[StatFreak]

The EMs are easy to analyze because they're always WYSIWYG. Still, the first thing I did when I bought my first EM slot was to create an odds sheet just like you did.   The stepper slots have virtual strips in the software that map to the symbols seen on the reels, so one can't determine the payout by looking at the strips.

Here are two sample PAR (pay table and reel) sheets for an S+ game. I thought you might be interested in looking at them. One is for Double Diamond, which is about as simple and straight forward as it gets. The second is for Double Diamond Deluxe. There are more complicated PARs than the DDD, but it's a good companion to compare to the straight DD to see the difference in complexity when symbols that nudge up and down are added.

You can see that there is a listing of the number of stops for each symbol in a separate short table that does not deal with payouts. There is a detailed listing of the specific combinations of pays that lists the number of included symbols per reel for each pay and the rest of the details that basically covers what you did in your spreadsheet.

Then there is a detail list of the physical strips showing the symbols in order, and a longer list of the virtual stops which gives the true picture of the reels. Finally, they list the results of statistical testing that indicates the short and long term volatility of the design to a 90% confidence value (Don't ask. Why they failed to use the accepted standard of 95% is beyond me!)

They also came up with the idea of their own standardized volatility index, which is simply the limit of expected deviation (in one direction) for the game for any interval of 10,000 spins to a confidence value of 90% (so we can't really call it two standard deviations, now can we?  ) The advantage of having that number is that it can be used to quickly compare the relative volatility of any two game designs.

Enjoy,

Stat

[wrkey]

Thanks to FoxsSlots I got the last mechanical issue resolved and now the machine is working great!  turned out the 2nd coin reset was due to a leaf switch on the Step up Unit that needed to be adjusted (bent).  It was the switch that controled the reset solinoid that should have contacted on both two coins and 3 coins... but was just enough off that on two it didn't touch.  I was completely lost on trying to figure it out but FoxsSlots had to 'dumb it down' for me (ie simplify the problem) and I was able to quickly resolve.

Fun machine so cool!  Thanks to all others who assisted!!!

[StatFreak]

Glad to hear it!    Barry knows his stuff! 

[CaptainHappy]

Glad to hear it!    Barry knows his stuff! 

CH

[Op-Bell]

The model number for Bally EMs is often stamped on the reel switch wafers.

The two reels in the top are the multipliers. The 10 position one is a standard pinball score wheel, next to it is one that looks the same but is 12 positions. The 10 position steps on every coin out when 2 coins are played, and every second position steps the payout counter. The 12 position steps when 3 coins are played and every 3rd position steps the payout counter. 5 coin multiplier machines have 4 of these, 10-12-12-10, for 2, 3, 4 and 5 coins played respectively.

[wrkey]

Thanks for the info there Op-Bell!!!   I found the model number right where you said they would bit.... 1090.

Thanks again... now if I can get those pesky Insert Coin & Coin Accepted lamps to light consistantly.  I think there must be a 'cold solder' somewhere.

[Op-Bell]

now if I can get those pesky Insert Coin & Coin Accepted lamps to light consistantly.  I think there must be a 'cold solder' somewhere.

Very often the bad connection is the center pin of the lamp socket. There's a hollow rivet through the bottom, and the socket center pin runs through it. Power comes in through a solder tag under the rivet. The problem is that it gets a bit loose over the years and some corrosion gets in so that the tag isn't making good contact with the rivet. If the tag is loose enough to turn on the lampholder body, that's probably it. If you're really, really good at soldering you can solder the tag to the rivet.

[wrkey]

I think the lamp sockets are OK because the intermentant working of the lamps is consistant across the bulbs.  In other words, either they both work like they are supposed to or neither work.

I tired to trace the wiring using my Ohm meter and I think it goes to one of the plugs to the back of the reels (on right front front of machine) and through some leaf swtiches and then back out the same plug (though one of the round plugs).  From there I'm not sure.

A schematic would be awesome... but all the ones I see are like $50 or more.... and I question the need for the lights to be equal to $50.

[Neonkiss]

I think the leaf switch for that circuit is on the left hand side of the reel mech.
that's left hand side opposite the damper on the right.
Check that switch for proper operation.