S2000 rebooting itself after a couple of spins

[knagl]

Hi.  Me again.   

I had pretty good luck with the first two of the three S2000s that I bought last week.  Aside from some relatively minor issues (covered and pretty much resolved in other threads), things were good with these machines.  ...until I decided to fire up the third one tonight.

The first thing I noticed is that while this machine has backlit reels installed (something I made sure of in pictures before I bid, and I purposely didn't bid on ones that didn't have backlit reels), there is no backlit reel controller/power supply thing.    Not a major issue per se, but an unexpected potential expense.

After checking as best I could for loose metal things like coins, screws, nuts, etc. and finding none, I fired the machine up.  All seemed to be pretty normal, and once I got the cash can seated correctly I got the bill validator to work and accept a bill.

I'm getting the "whump, whump, whump" sound from the game, but if my experience is like it was with the other machine, installing and enabling a sound SIMM will resolve that issue, so I'm not too worried.

Here's my problem:

After about five spins, the machine suddenly rebooted itself.  ...and rebooted, and rebooted, and rebooted, generally not even making it far into the process.  I could hear a clicking noise, but I'm not sure where it was coming from (if it was from the ticket printer or the power supply).

I turned the game off, removed the reels and ensured that the thumbscrew that holds the power supply in place behind the reels was tight (it was a tiny bit loose, but not by much).  I put the reels back in and tried again.  I got one or two spins in before it started rebooting itself.  The lights on the MPU board were doing weird things, from all lit up to flickering to eventually none of the lights (and no VFD at that point, either).

What say you S2000 experts?  Flaky power supply, or bad MPU?

I do have two working S2000s, and assuming there's little chance of causing damage, I'd be fine swapping power supplies to see if that's the issue.  One problem, though, and this is the S2000 n00b in me... how do I remove the power supply?  If I'm feeling correctly with my finger, do I need a really short philips screwdriver and some powerful fingers to unscrew that thumbscrew?  The supply seems to have a one-way (tighten only) thumbscrew on it.


Back to the backlit reels thing for a second.  I plan to sell this machine ASAP to help pay for the first two machines.  While to me the backlit reels are kind of a big deal, would they be to the average buyer?  I'd for sure have the enhanced sound SIMM when I sell it, and obviously fix this rebooting issue first too, but do you think that I'd get back in $$ the investment it will take (in time and money) to get the backlit reels working?  I'm guessing not.

Machine info: S2000 round top with 3cm "White Ice" with 2x and 4x symbols.  Backlit reels, backlit strips, no backlight controller.  It does have (from what I understand based on reading previous posts) the I/O card (a molex connector that seems to stick out of the right side of where the MPU board slides in).  It has the short reel glass, but the ticket printer is in the top box, next to the player tracking stuff.  Power supply is a 3Y CP-9826.  (I came across this link (.pdf), but I don't know for sure what is being said there, and I really don't at this point know for sure if I have a power supply issue -- I'm only assuming I do.)

Thanks in advance for any help (with the rebooting) and advice (adding the backlighting support) you folks can offer.   

-Kevin

[Ron (r273)]

Knagl, I would try a different MPU first, if you have not done so. Some of the light issues sounds like the board plus
it much fast swap.

Ron(r273)

[knagl]

Ron-

I don't have a clear chip yet -- am I going to run into issues with either the new machine or the machine I pull the MPU board from by moving that board into the problem machine?

The fact that it works for a few spins and then starts dipping out seemed to be a power-related issue.  Also, if the power supply is to blame, is there a chance I could damage my working MPU board by putting it into the faulty machine?

Thanks for your continued help.

[StatFreak]

Ron-

I don't have a clear chip yet -- am I going to run into issues with either the new machine or the machine I pull the MPU board from by moving that board into the problem machine?

The fact that it works for a few spins and then starts dipping out seemed to be a power-related issue.  Also, if the power supply is to blame, is there a chance I could damage my working MPU board by putting it into the faulty machine?

Thanks for your continued help.

I'm not an expert, or even close, but I agree with your concern. From all of the prior posts I've read, it does sound like a PS problem, or maybe a problem with a power harness causing an intermittent connection somewhere.

It's best to trace problems forward from the PS outward. If the PS is bad and you swap MPU boards, you might end up damaging the good board. On the other hand, if you swap PSs and the problem is on the MPU board, you won't harm anything.

Do you have a DMM and can you check the output voltages on the suspect PS?

[TZtech]

Hello Kevin

I would start by installing a PSU from one of your working machines in the suspect machines - Yes you do require a stubby philips to get those thumbscrews loose in most cases.

if that does not resolve problem next step is to test the suspect MPU in a working machine.

The clicking noise could be a handle mech if your machine has a handle and could be the culprit - unplug it if its installed.

Ian

[knagl]

Thanks guys.  I'll try unplugging the solenoid for the handle, and also I'll disconnect the fluorescent light ballasts (I've been continuing to dig and read old posts, and I read that sometimes the ballasts go bad and try to draw too much juice) to see if those make a difference, then I'll swap power supplies (I just need to find my darn short philips).

I have access to a DMM, but I don't actually have one at home (I know, I know, they're cheap and I should get one).  How would one test those power supplies, anyway?  It looks like they get their input and output from the same molex connector.

[TZtech]

Kevin

You will want to test it under load - If you have a Netplex distribution board in the top box that probably the most accesable point.

Ian

[knagl]

Good tip, thanks!

[Buzz]

Kevin If I knew you better I would say something like this  "Hey dick head why didn't you tell me you need a clear chip, I could have put it in the package I mail to you yesterday" Guess I won't say it!!!  Want me to mail you one tomorrow?


 I have a S 2000   acting up a lot like yours, I've tryed 3 different power supplies and replaced the Off/On power switch. The only thing that worked was the service light. I thought I would switch MPU's and let you know if it made a difference. Here's where I made a mistake ( not the first time ) when I pulled the MPU out the power was on ( with nothing working I didn't realize it was )  DAMN everything lit up, the BV started making noise,  I figured a bad MPU quick inspection reveled bent pins MPU to Mother board. 

[Yoeddy1]

I have read a LOT of posts on this forum and I'm starting to realize that bent pins, poor seating/connections, and marginal batteries can cause almost ANY anomally.  A year or so ago, I was getting battery drains and non stop error 12/61 codes.  Discovering and fixing the bent pins on the connector to the motherboard magically made that problem vanish.

[knagl]

Kevin If I knew you better I would say something like this  "Hey dick head why didn't you tell me you need a clear chip, I could have put it in the package I mail to you yesterday" Guess I won't say it!!!  Want me to mail you one tomorrow?

Haha, nice.  I'm okay for now -- I'm going to start with the power supply swap (and I'll check the MPU for bent pins, too!), and I'll let everyone know what the outcome is.  I was going to do it tonight, but I don't have a screwdriver that's short enough to fit in there -- I'll have to stop by the hardware store tomorrow.

when I pulled the MPU out the power was on ( with nothing working I didn't realize it was )  DAMN everything lit up, the BV started making noise,  I figured a bad MPU quick inspection reveled bent pins MPU to Mother board. 

Eek.  Did the MPU still work after being "hot swapped" out?

[stayouttadabunker]

I don't know about Buzz's board but I did that a couple of times and got lucky.
I guess I just pulled it out straight so fast nothing happened...


(whew! Bunker wipes the sweat from his head with a handkerchief... )

[StatFreak]

Everyone makes mistakes once in a while. I put a chip into an S+ backwards and powered it up.   I figured the chip was toast, but when I corrected my mistake and tried it out, it worked.    Just lucky.

[Yoeddy1]

I've sprayed Windex onto a live monitor and blown up a board.  I also play the "hitman" role and break the legs of little innocent EPROM's.

[Foster]

I have been lucky when removing MPU and I/O boards S2000 and S+ accidentally with the power on, no problems so far knock on wood.

What I have seen looking at the Schematics IGT loves to add buffering IC's to the MPU design to protect the more expensive IC's

I still do not recommend you remove boards with power on.

[stayouttadabunker]

The damage is done when trying to remove/insert the thing with power on...
Huge electrical arcs are probably created across pins that shouldn't be.
This creates tremendous power spikes and fries every thing to hell and back in it's way!!

                                                                 

[knagl]

Well, an update of sorts.  Not sure if I've figured out the solution, but here's where I'm at.

I pulled out the questionable power supply, and put in a known good one.  I fired the machine up and closed the door.  Eventually, "CALL ATTENDANT" appeared on the VFD.  As soon as I opened the door, "WAH-WAH WAH-WAH WAH-WAH WAH-WAH!!!" went an alarm.  Geez it was loud.  The machine said something about a RAM error.  I turned the JP reset key, and it told me that there was a non-recoverable error, followed by something like, "no critical data will be lost."  It prompted me to press and hold the test button for a few seconds, then close the door.

The machine spun to life, although it lost the credits I had on it (I think it was in the middle of a spin when it started to flake out before, but I can't swear to it).

I put money in, and the thing worked great!  I thought, "okay, problem solved."  A minute or two later, I heard the thing reboot itself.  Damn.  It only rebooted once, though -- it didn't start looping like it did before.

I powered the machine off, unplugged the ballasts that went to the belly glass light and the top box light.  (I spaced on the reel glass light.)  Power on, machine worked.  Left it on for a while, it was fine.

Power off, plugged in just the belly glass light.  Power on, worked fine.

Power on, added the top box light.  Worked fine.     I left it on for a while, seemed fine.


I opened up the old power supply and expected to see blown capacitors and the like, but it looked fine.  No burned components, the caps looked great (no puffyness or leakage).  For kicks, I swapped power supplies (put the original one back in it).  It's on and has been running fine since. 


So, really, all I've done is swapped power supplies in and out a couple of times.  Maybe the original one wasn't seated right (or wasn't making good contact), despite me tightening the thumbscrew.  I'm going to leave it on for a while and see what (if anything) happens.  Hopefully it was just a fluke.

[Yoeddy1]

Knagl, I just performed a clear chip procedure this morning on my machine by the book, and what you are describing above sounds very familiar to what I was going through.  Were you actually performing a clear chip procedure or did you just swap power supplies and fire it up?

If you have a clear chip, key chip, and your base chip, I would run through a complete wipe and reload if it were me.  If you need the procedure, I can send it to you.

But if it's back to normal, perhaps there's no need.

Thanks,
Jason

[Buzz]

Kevin GOOD JOB  any time you do a clear and key you will have to do all the steps you just posted above. 

[StatFreak]

...
I put money in, and the thing worked great!  I thought, "okay, problem solved."  A minute or two later, I heard the thing reboot itself.  Damn.  It only rebooted once, though -- it didn't start looping like it did before.

I powered the machine off, unplugged the ballasts that went to the belly glass light and the top box light.  (I spaced on the reel glass light.)  Power on, machine worked.  Left it on for a while, it was fine.

Power off, plugged in just the belly glass light.  Power on, worked fine.

Power on, added the top box light.  Worked fine.     I left it on for a while, seemed fine.
...

You might have had a bad or intermittent connection to the ballasts. If it happens again, I would recheck those connectors and harnesses and the ballasts themselves, as well as those PITA starters.

Just a thought.