Slot paying out too often, Is there a way to change this?

[timbo1961]

Just Purchased a IGT Triple Double RWB S-2000, that came with 150 tokens, almost every time, before I'm Thu these tokens this machine has rung up, any where from 250 - 5000 credits, is it possible something has been set to do this ? Maybe a reset of the machine will fix this, I'd appreciate any input you have.
 Thanks     

[theDotster]

I'm no expert, but it sounds to me like it is in some sort of tournament mode.

Could this be linked to the problems you had with the bill validator being disabled and the coins going to a drop box and not the hopper?

I believe the markings on the game/reel chips should help identify if it is tournament software or not.

[timbo1961]

  How do I Identify these ? (location)

[theDotster]

I'm sorry I don't know the exact location on the board, but they should be on the processor board that plugs in on the left hand side of the machine. They usually have a sticker on the top of them with a code number like SSxxxxx or SPxxxxx, possible even labelled GME, BSE or REEL.

I don't personally own one, but hopefully someone here can give the exact chip locations and confirm or shoot down my musings above!

[Foster]

Take a look at this post

This is a picture of my spare MPU for a S2000

http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=791.msg5398#msg5398

[idesign]

The chips to look for are GME1 and GME2 (SB1XXXXX), and the Stepper Game chip (SG000XXX)

[PWRSTROKE]

Why not just chk. the % in the menu and change it if it will allow it?   I have s-2000's that will alow this. -Just a thought-B.

[Brianzz]

FYI in tournament mode machine won't accept coin or bills

[timbo1961]

 I went into my  accounting menu & here are some of the things I found,
PV1 - Game SG000312   9f1
PV3 - Base SB100194    7CD9
PV6 - Bill WBA 12/13   024.V360-30
PV7 - Primary Dot m IGT VFD 00002   1997/7/11
PV8 - Printer Not Configured
PV9 - Printer 2 Not Configured
PV10 - Theoretical Payback % LS014537   96.22 %
PV11 - Proc Board ID 0-2184-40671
PV13 - Spectrum Not Configured
PV14 - Version VS009GXo   34c9
PV16 - Sound DSV 00042   5811
PV17 -  Aux Bonus Device Not Configured
PV18 - Aux Dot Matrix Not ConfiguredOptions     
   
Machine   
   
3.1.1 - Credit     
Credit
   
3.1.2 - Candles     
Reactive Timer - 0     
Door Closure - Enable 
Door Drop -  Enable   

3.1.4 -  Limits
Hopper - 500
Credit - 500
Jackpot - 500
Bills - 500

3.1.5 - Partial Pay
 Odd Pay -    Disable

3.1.7 - Cashout
Cashout Menu -     Disable

3.1.8 - W-2G Setup
Controller - Turn Test Key
Limit - Turn Test Key
   
Communicaton   

3.4.1 - Sas Setup   
Primary Add - 016   
Channel -   Off 
Link Down - Enable 
Hand Pay -   Multi Report   
Game Event -    Enable 

3.4.2 Sas Setup
Secondary - 001
Reset Same as Primary

3.4.3 - Config Sas
Cashless - Primary
Legacy - PrimaryAsdc - Primary
Link - Primary
Validation - Primary

3.4.4 Ass#
Ass# - 000000
Reg #  - 0000
Tran #  -   Disable
Tick # - 001000.00   

3.4.2 Bally Setup   
Miser Protocol - Ver 906820912   
W/Bonus Support   
Channel - # 3   

Download   
   
3.7 - Game Play   
Spin Repeat  -    Disable

Looking at these can you tell if it's setup for Tournament
Originally when I purchased this slot, Hopper was Grounded out & Bills were disabled, only took tokens, so I enabled the bill validator but that's all I did, is it possible to turn things off in menu to make it a tournament mode machine ?
PV10 list 96.22% would this be the payout% ? and  the reason it pays out like it does.
As far as trying to change % where in the menu were you able to do so ? 
Thanks

[Foster]

Nothing there shows it in tournament mode.

96.22% is the payback to player over the life of the machine, or a few million plays.

Red, White & Blue themes if they have a 95% or better chip could appear to be paying out too much.

You need to use a key chip to change the game payback percentage (you have 5 or so to pick from)
Key 17 is what you need.

I wouldn't worry about it you have a loose machine for now, it will change.

You could also have a good playing pattern.

[timbo1961]

Thanks for the input , Alright since this doesn't seem to be in a Tournament Mode, Can you look over these Items that are in the menu and see if this looks right also. Not familiar on how to read these figures but if this slot was used to payout cash I would have lot my shirt in the week that I've owned it .
Would it help things if I did a ram clear ?  or do you think I should just leave things alone ?    Like Foster mentioned It just might be loose for now and it will change.
   
Accounting      
      
1.1 Terminal Accounting            
1.1.1 Terminal Master Accounting             
1.1.1.1 Terminal Master Money  Accounting             
MTA 1-  Coin In 16398            
MTA 8- Coins Out  1101            
1.1.2 Period Accounting            

1.1.2.1 Period Terminal Accounting            
PTA 1- Per Coin In Played 16398            
PTA 8- Per Hold  32.17 %            
         
Game         
         
1.2.1 Game 1 Meter         
GM 1 - Coin In  0         

1.2.2 Game 2 Meter         
GM 2 -  Coin In  0         
GM 2 -  Machine Paid Won  0         
GM 2.1 -  Coin Out (Machine Paid Paytable)  0         
GM 2.2 -  Machine Paid Progressive Payout  0          
GM 2.3 -  Machine Paid Extra Bonus Payout  0          
GM 3 -  Games Played  0         
GM 4 -  Games Won  0         
GM 5 -  Attendant Paid Won  0         
GM 5.1 -  Attendant Paid Jackpots  0         
GM 5.2 -  Attendant Paid Progressive Payout  0         
GM 5.3  -  Attendant Paid External Bonus Payout  0         
GM 6  -  Attendant Paid Canceled Credit  0         
GM 7  -  Bonus Won  0         
GM 8  -  System Bonus Won  0         

1.2.3 Game 3 Meter
GM 1 -  Coin in  16398
GM 2 -  Machine Paid Won  17324
GM 2.1 -  Coin Out (Machine Paid Paytable) 17324
GM 2.2 -  Machine Paid Progressive Payout  0   
GM 2.3 -  Machine Paid External Bonus Payout  0
GM 3 -  Games Played  5867 
GM 4 -  Games Won  698
GM 5 -  Attendant Paid Won  4350
GM 5.1 -  Attendant Paid Jackpots  4350 
GM 5.2 -  Attendant Paid Progressive Payouts  0 
GM 5.3 -  Attendant Paid External Bonus Payout  0
GM 6 -  Attendant Paid Cancelled Credits  4741
GM 7 -  Bonus Won  0
GM 8 -  System Bonus Won  0

1.2.4 Game 4  Meter
GM 1 -  Coin in  0
GM 2 -  Machine Paid Won  0
GM 2.1 -  Coin Out (Machine Paid Paytable)  0
GM 2.2 -  Machine Paid Progressive Payout  0   
GM 2.3 -  Machine Paid External Bonus Payout  0
GM 3 -  Games Played  0
GM 4 -  Games Won  0
GM 5 -  Attendant Paid Won  0
GM 5.1 -  Attendant Paid Jackpots  0
GM 5.2 -  Attendant Paid Progressive Payouts  0 
GM 5.3 -  Attendant Paid External Bonus Payout  0
GM 6 -  Attendant Paid Cancelled Credits  0
GM 7 -  Bonus Won  0
GM 8 -  System Bonus Won  0

1.2.5 Game 5 Meter
GM 1 -  Coin in  0
GM 2 -  Machine Paid Won  0
GM 2.1 -  Coin Out (Machine Paid Paytable)  0
GM 2.2 -  Machine Paid Progressive Payout  0   
GM 2.3 -  Machine Paid External Bonus Payout  0
GM 3 -  Games Played  0
GM 4 -  Games Won  0
GM 5 -  Attendant Paid Won  0
GM 5.1 -  Attendant Paid Jackpots  0
GM 5.2 -  Attendant Paid Progressive Payouts  0 
GM 5.3 -  Attendant Paid External Bonus Payout  0
GM 6 -  Attendant Paid Cancelled Credits  0
GM 7 -  Bonus Won  0
GM 8 -  System Bonus Won  0

Security
1.4 Security Account
SA 1 -  Games Since Main Dr  0
SA 2 -  Games Since Drop Dr  5867
SA 3 -  Games Since Power Cycle  0
SA 4 -  Main Dr Opens  103
SA 5 -  Coin Drop Opens  0
SA 6 -  Bill Drop Opens  0
SA 7 -  Card Cage Access  0
SA 8 -  Key Chip Access Jurisdiction  3  100 %  4/4/08
SA 9 -  Ttale Main Dr Opens  0
SA 10 -  Ttale Coin Drop Opens  0
SA 11 -  Ttale Bill Drop Opens  0
SA 12 -  Ttale Card Cage Opens  0
SA 13 -  Games Since Ram Clear  5867

Error Accounting

1.5 Error Accounting

1.5.1 Error Accounting
EA 1 -  Coin In Jams  1
EA 2 -  Coin In Seq. Errors  0
EA 3 -  Bill Jams  0
EA 4 -  Reject Bills  0
EA 5 -  Bill Validator Errors  3
EA 6 -  Hopper Empties  11
EA 7 -  Coin Out Jams  2
EA 8 -  Extra Coin Outs  0
EA 9 -  Meter Disconnects  0
EA 10 -  Processor Faults  0
EA 11 -  Printer Faults  0
EA 12 -  Reel 1 Tilts  0
EA 13 -  Reel 2 Tilts  0
EA 14 -  Reel 3 Tilts  0
EA 15 -  Reel 4 Tilts  0
EA 16 -  Reel 5 Tilts  0
EA 17 -  General Reel Tilts  0
EA 18 -  Reels Disconnected  0
EA 19 -  Reel 6 Tilts  0
EA 20 -  Reel 7 Tilts  0
EA 21 -  Reel 8 Tilts  0
EA 22 -  Reel 9 Tilts  0
EA 23 -  Reel 10 Tilts  0
EA 24 -  Reel 11 Tilts  0
EA 25 -  Reel 12 Tilts  0
EA 26 -  Reel 13 Tilts  0

Version Accounting

1.6 Version Accounting

1.6.1 Version Accounting
PV 1 -  Game       SG000312   9F1
PV 3 -  Base      SB100194    7CD9        
PV 6 -  Bill        WBA 12 / 13   024. V.360-30      
PV 7 -  Primary Dot Matrix       IGT VFD  00002   1997-7-11      
PV 8 -  Printer       Not Configured      
PV 9 -  Printer 2       Not Configured      
PV 10 -  Theorethical Payback %       LS014537   96.22 %       
PV 11 -  Proc Board ID       -0-2184-40671      
PV 13 -  Spectrum       Not Configured      
PV 14 -  Version       VS009GXO    34C9      
PV 16 -  Sound       DSV 00042   5811      
PV 17 -  Aux Bonus Device       Not Configured      
PV 18 -  Aux Dot Matrix      Not Configured       

Master Progressive Accounting      

1.7 Master Progressive Accounting      
PA 1 -  Level 1 Hits  0
PA 2 -  Level 2 Hits  0
PA 3 -  Level 3 Hits  0
PA 4 -  Level 4 Hits  0
PA 5 -  Level 5 Hits  0
PA 6 -  Level 6 Hits  0
PA 7 -  Level 7 Hits  0
PA 8 -  Level 8 Hits  0
PA 9 -  Total Progressive Hits  0

[Foster]

I don't think it is paying out too much.

It has a 32% hold at the current time.

Also according to your coin in/out the player has about 6% payback that is very low compared to the 96.22% it theoretically has.

[idesign]

GM 1 -  Coin in  16398
GM 2 -  Machine Paid Won  17324

More coins out than in.  6% to the good.  Otherwise it would be minus.  Looks like he hit a jackpot along the way.

[Foster]

Idesign you are corrrect.

I was looking at the wrong 2 numbers, I was looking under the MTA stuff.
 

[StatFreak]

Sorry to correct you guys, but:

Total in = 16,398
Total Out = 17,324 + 4,350 + 4,741 (OK, the cancelled credits may be included in the 17,324 ) = either 21,674 or 26,415

That's either 132.2% or 161.1%  <EDIT> The 132.2 jives with the 32.17 listed, although I'm not sure why it's not listed as a negative. It should read: "percentage hold = - 32.17%"

Win frequency = 8.4 (that's actually below average!)
Avg bet = 2.79 coins
Avg win = 11.1 coins/coin or 13.6 coins/coin  (long term expected is 5.88)

But 5,867 games is a drop in the bucket - the long term payback statistics mean nothing at such a small play level.


SS4633 is the closest PAR that I have (I don't know S2000 details but the payout of 96.234% is a close match. Here is the short-term volatility:

90% CONFIDENCE VALUES     VOLATILITY INDEX =   16.427
   HANDLE PULLS     LOWER         UPPER
                        PERCENTAGE   PERCENTAGE
         1000.            44.29         148.18
       10000.            79.81         112.66
     100000.            91.04         101.43

So for 5,900 pulls you're a bit on the high side, but remember that the numbers above represent 90% values -- that means that one in ten times the numbers will still fall outside the range indicated. The high average win amount,  the lower hit frequency, and the handpays listed on your machine show that most of extra payout came from a small number of large hits - again, within short-term expectation. You could quite possibly still be in the red after ten-times as much action (60,000 games played). In fact, I would actually expect it at this point. If you're still in the red after 500,000 games played, then you might have a problem. Even then, not necessarily with this game.

That's why casinos install hundreds of machines and want to see hundreds of thousands of pulls per DAY. They don't look at one machine, or fifty, for that matter, for their daily bread and butter.

1.2.3 Game 3 Meter
GM 1 -  Coin in  16398
GM 2 -  Machine Paid Won  17324
GM 2.1 -  Coin Out (Machine Paid Paytable) 17324
GM 2.2 -  Machine Paid Progressive Payout  0   
GM 2.3 -  Machine Paid External Bonus Payout  0
GM 3 -  Games Played  5867
GM 4 -  Games Won  698
GM 5 -  Attendant Paid Won  4350
GM 5.1 -  Attendant Paid Jackpots  4350
GM 5.2 -  Attendant Paid Progressive Payouts  0
GM 5.3 -  Attendant Paid External Bonus Payout  0
GM 6 -  Attendant Paid Cancelled Credits  4741
GM 7 -  Bonus Won  0
GM 8 -  System Bonus Won  0

[blueridgeslots]

Canceled Credits are not included in Coin Out, they have to be counted separate as a Hand Pay (not a Jackpot Win), but a cash out over what hopper will pay, and also you need to know the accounting denom vs the game denom, it could be a penny accounting denom and a quarter game, but don't suspect that here

[StatFreak]

Canceled Credits are not included in Coin Out, they have to be counted separate as a Hand Pay (not a Jackpot Win), but a cash out over what hopper will pay, and also you need to know the accounting denom vs the game denom, it could be a penny accounting denom and a quarter game, but don't suspect that here

I agree with you about the canceled credits; that's why they have a separate line item for them. But if that's the case, then why is the machine reporting a hold of 32.17% (which should be negative)?

21,674/16398 = 132.1747%, but
26,415/16398 = 161.0867%  
That indicates that the 32.17% figure listed by the machine does not include the canceled credits of 4741. That's odd.

I also agree with you about the denomination issue. The denomination of the accounting and the game would only come into play if all of the figures listed did not represent the same type of information (credits in this case), because then the numbers would have to be converted to the same type of data before doing the math (apples to apples). The only figure that might be dollars is the jackpot amount, and I agree that it doesn't appear to be.