IGT S+ accepts all coins as credits

[Jim]

Buzz you are correct.  the rake is only controlled by the action of the cc.  the rake is ALWAYS closed, with power applied to it and with no power to it. the only time the rake is ever open is when a coin has been verified as a good coin. then the rake pulses open for a split second to allow that coin to pass. then it closes again. by closing ,I mean the tines of the rake are inside the cc blocking the path of anything put into the cc and rejecting it.

I asked you to preform the stand alone test of the cc. what were the results? this will tell us if the cc is working as it should. to do this: remove cc of its holder, open bellydoor, extend the cc wire harness out to the cc and plug it in,  this is what should occur, the led should be off, the rake coil should be  de-energized ,so the rake should be inside the cc. close door,  after machine does its internal diagnostics it should be ready to play, led on the cc should be on, rake still inside the cc. insert a coin onto the cc, it should accept it . you will see the rake open for a brief time and allow the coin to pass and then close again. this will happen as many times as you wish to test it. the machine has no idea what you are doing so it should remain in the idle mode.

try this and report back.
Jim 

[WELLMAN]

Jim, here are the result of the stand alone test.  Every thing goes as you describes until the machine gets ready to play.  As soon as it's ready to play the rake coil energizes, the rake opens and stays open.  The LED flashes faintly and the goes off and stays off.  Same result with and without the purple wire.

But are we forgetting that little bitty spring that keeps the rake closed? Wellman did state that this CC did work in another machine. I think it needs tested again.
The only other thing I can think of is test the ground wire where it goes into the comparator. A bad ground can cause all kinds of funny things.

Buzz, checked the spring, all looks good.  As far as the test of my comparator in another machine and vise versa, I have thought back on that now that you guys have enlightened me on how things are suppose to work.  The test consisted of dealer swapping out the comparators and dropping a couple quarters an nickles through them.  He was not reel keen on me getting in there with him.  I could only take his word that they were good comparators and we were only checking to see if the machine still accepted nickles.  I didn't know at the time to check the rake positions during the differant stages.  I'll check the ground in alittle bit so we can eliminate that.  Thanks Guys

[stayouttadabunker]

However, if you've only added let's say 2 credits from the credit display meter using the Bet One Credit button and it's a 3 coin game - the comparator rake should allow you to add 1 more credit only through the coin mech system to complete the Max bet allowed.

But the rake will still normally be closed (even if another coin can be inserted) unless it has just tested a coin and it passes the test, right?

Yes...Exactly knagl !
Like Jim and Buzz says above - the rake is always normally closed.
It will open again, if the last coin needed to complete the MAX bet - is good.
But once the MAX bet has been reached, it will never open again until the game is played.

The only other time I can think of the rake opening again, to accept further good coins,
is when you have a "Montana Credits" SP chip installed...

[Jim]

If that is the case then.... I would say your cc is bad.  the led is a indicator that the unit is receiving 24vac. it should be on bright and solid. if you have a way to measure the voltage across the black and yellow wires and it measures 24vac, and the led continues to be dim and flicker then the cc is bad. More than likely  C-1  could be bad.  Again  if you have a meter, measure the dc voltage across C-1..its a 220 microfarad cap rated at 35vdc..   you should measure around 19 vdc. you have to remove the cc circuit board cover to access C-1.

Jim

[knagl]

Should the light on the comparator be on after the maximum number of coins have been accepted by the machine, or would that go off to inhibit the comparator from accepting further coins until after the spin is completed?

WELLMAN: Does your comparator accept pennies as the first two coins, or does it correctly reject those?

[stayouttadabunker]

Should the light on the comparator be on after the maximum number of
coins have been accepted by the machine, or would that go off to inhibit the comparator
from accepting further coins until after the spin is completed?

No, the CC light goes off as soon as you've reached the max for the game.
(On the flip side, it stays on continuously when the SP1137 "Montana Chip" is installed. It only
goes off when the coin credit limit is reached)

If you peer through the main door lock hole on an S+, you can see the coin comparator
light flicker as a coin is dropped through it.
You will also see the light go out when the max bet in coins is reached.

However, if you have a lock installed - you can't see anything....

[WELLMAN]

WELLMAN: Does your comparator accept pennies as the first two coins, or does it correctly reject those?

Accepts Pennies, wooden nickles, paper clips...lol

[stayouttadabunker]

One thing for sure, the sensitivity adjustment doesn't do beans.
I dare you to turn that dial all the way clockwise and drop a coin...
If it goes into the coin tray - it works.

[knagl]

Jim, here are the result of the stand alone test.  Every thing goes as you describes until the machine gets ready to play.  As soon as it's ready to play the rake coil energizes, the rake opens and stays open.  The LED flashes faintly and the goes off and stays off.  Same result with and without the purple wire.

Okay, so to be clear, but I think I understand what you're saying now, but please correct me if any of this is wrong:

- When you attempted to test the comparator with Jim's stand-alone test, you were unable to because the rake was constantly in the "open" position when the door was closed and the machine should have been ready to accept coins (thus any coin inserted would fall right past the rake because it was open).

- With the door open, the LED on the comparator is off and the rake is closed

- When you close the door, the reels give their "maiden spin" and the LED comes on briefly and then flickers off.  At the same time, the rake locks into the "open" position, allowing anything inserted to fall past it

Is all of that correct?  If not, please clarify as to what is wrong.

[WELLMAN]

Is all of that correct?  If not, please clarify as to what is wrong.

All correct

[knagl]

Do you have a known good MPU board (perhaps from one of your other machines) you can swap into the problem child machine to see if the issue stays with the machine or follows the board?

[Jim]

knowing if you are getting 24 vac to the cc is the key here.  I have to ASSuME  that it is ,because the cc rake coil  is being energized so it can pull the rake into the constant open position. why the led goes off is ???   the MPU board supplies the signal to the cc. it is called "lockout"  and is applied via the yellow wire. the black wire has 24vac applied constantly,  so when both are present the cc has 24vac applied to it to operate.  that's why when the door is open you don't get the signal and the led is off, when the door is closed you get the signal and the led is on. 

Bunker, or anyone else:  If you want to see the coin in assembly work, you can remove it from the machine, open the belly door, plug it in , and watch it work with the door closed.you will see the led come on and go off as the machine goes thru its cycles, you will see the cc work as it accepts and rejects coins.

It still doesn't make sense why the rake is out all the time, the machine has no control over it . All the machine does is apply power to turn it on, the rest is up to the cc to do its job.


Jim

[stayouttadabunker]

I agree with you Jim.
I just happen to have a Frankenstein test machine which
allows me to work the comparator any way I want.
Not many homeowners have this set-up I have available for my use.

I don't normally peer in thru the lock hole to see things working...lol
I always forget to mention that it's really very easy to look at the comparator from the
belly door but some machines actually do not have a belly door that opens.
I've seen many S+'s that have solid doors that do not open.

Anyways, the most perplexing part of this thread is why
the coin comparator rake stays open all the time?
That's a very strange rake behavior I've never ever seen before.
Would the sample coin electronic field copper element have
anything to do with the rake being open all the time?

I'd have to go back into the posts on this thread to see
if he tried this coin comparator in a known "good" machine yet to observe the rake behavior...

[WELLMAN]

knowing if you are getting 24 vac to the cc is the key here.  I have to ASSuME  that it is ,because the cc rake coil  is being energized so it can pull the rake into the constant open position. why the led goes off is ???   the MPU board supplies the signal to the cc. it is called "lockout"  and is applied via the yellow wire. the black wire has 24vac applied constantly,  so when both are present the cc has 24vac applied to it to operate.  that's why when the door is open you don't get the signal and the led is off, when the door is closed you get the signal and the led is on. 

Jim I'm getting 13vac to the black wire at all time and 12 from the yellow when the machine is ready and 13 from the yellow when it is not.  And if I take the sample coin out the led lights up?

[WELLMAN]

Do you have a known good MPU board (perhaps from one of your other machines) you can swap into the problem child machine to see if the issue stays with the machine or follows the board?

No I don't own another S+

[knagl]

No I don't own another S+

Oh.  I thought you had said earlier that you had swapped this comparator into another machine and it worked properly in the other machine.  Maybe I'm mis-remembering.

[stayouttadabunker]

I think he did swap it but at the dealer's place?
Anyways, I find this statement below utterly unbelievable! >>>

"...if I take the sample coin out the led lights up?"

I wish I had an S+ by my side to try this...
Could you try this & let us know what happens, knagl?
I find it amazing that just removing the sample coin would turn ON  the coin comparator???

[WELLMAN]

I think he did swap it but at the dealer's place?
Anyways, I find this statement below utterly unbelievable! >>>

"...if I take the sample coin out the led lights up?"

I wish I had an S+ by my side to try this...
Could you try this & let us know what happens, knagl?
I find it amazing that just removing the sample coin would turn ON  the coin comparator???

I never said it turned "on" the comparator.  There had been questions earlier about if my led lights up and it normally doesn't.  How ever today, while the machine was in ready mode, I took out the sample coin and the LED comes on.  Put a sample coin back in and the light goes off.

[stayouttadabunker]

Did you do this with the door open or closed?

[WELLMAN]

Did you do this with the door open or closed?

Closed

[stayouttadabunker]

Okay... closed, but with the comparator sticking outta the belly door right?
The light should be "ON" and flickers "Off" briefly as a coin falls through it.
Pulling the sample coin out could turn the LED off rendering the unit useless
until you put the sample coin back in.
Then the LED should turn back "On" as normal.

Why your CC acts opposite of a normal one is weird.

Why?
Because when a CC is in a ready-mode machine and sticking out of the belly door in your hand
with the door latch closed and the door optics seeing eye-to-eye, the LED should be "On"
and the rake should be in the "Closed" position.

There's something wrong with either your coin comparator or your MPU.

What are you using as a sample coin?

[WELLMAN]

Tried them all

[stayouttadabunker]

Okay, in your very 1st post, you said the comparator works fine in another machine.
If I were you,
I'd start looking around for a new MPU board because yours is acting screwy.
They are not expensive!
Look at it this way...47 posts from S+ guys and it's still not working.
Go shopping!

here's an idea where to get them or place an ad in the Classifieds section of NLG for your needs>>>


http://cgi.ebay.com/IGT-S-PLUS-SLOT-MACHINE-MPU-CPU-BOARD-/120619800375?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c15801737

[WELLMAN]

Are all MPU Boards the same for all S+ machine?

[stayouttadabunker]

Yours has the blue volume knob on top?
If so, it's a 10MHz board.
Those without - are 16MHz.