S 2000 reel tilt

[Buzz]

I've had a interresting day trying to fix a 3 reel S2000 from reel tilts. Most times couldn't play one game without a tilt, sometimes only #3 and other times all three reels would tilt. Seems the obvious would be dirty reel optics, so I took a air hose and blew them out, No help. OK so I removed the baskets and cleaned the optics, no help. Got to thinking I have another working machine same game, so switched the reels, no help. Next step was to switch the MPU, the reel tilts now moved over to the second machine. So I now know I have a bad MPU, I have plenty  of spares but I can't give up that easy. so after a quick inspection I decide to make a new set of chips for the game. Started out only replacing the base chip, no help. Next version chip, no help. Last but not least the two game chips, no more tilts. I did switch the Base and version back just to see and the game is still OK.  The whole reel tilt problem was in the Game chips.


Bunker take a look at one of your MPUs and take note of the little green wires that IGT did for a mod on all boards. Look at the reel driver for #4 reel, the green wire is soldered in a different  place than the other four.





 

[blueridgeslots]

How many Ram Clears did you try?

[stormrider]

I've had a interresting day trying to fix a 3 reel S2000 from reel tilts. Most times couldn't play one game without a tilt, sometimes only #3 and other times all three reels would tilt. Seems the obvious would be dirty reel optics, so I took a air hose and blew them out, No help. OK so I removed the baskets and cleaned the optics, no help. Got to thinking I have another working machine same game, so switched the reels, no help. Next step was to switch the MPU, the reel tilts now moved over to the second machine. So I now know I have a bad MPU, I have plenty  of spares but I can't give up that easy. so after a quick inspection I decide to make a new set of chips for the game. Started out only replacing the base chip, no help. Next version chip, no help. Last but not least the two game chips, no more tilts. I did switch the Base and version back just to see and the game is still OK.  The whole reel tilt problem was in the Game chips.


Bunker take a look at one of your MPUs and take note of the little green wires that IGT did for a mod on all boards. Look at the reel driver for #4 reel, the green wire is soldered in a different  place than the other four.





 

Nice post Buzz good to know for future reference.

Congrats on #2000 BTW


Tim

[stayouttadabunker]

Great post of your digging around Buzz!  
I'm nowhere near my S2000 at the moment but I WILL look for that wire on it tonight.
Even though I thoroughly believe it was because I plugged the bonus reel into the older reel driver board,
I wonder if that mod green wire was a possible cause of that chip getting blown up on my MPU?

I'll post later this evening whether or not my blown MPU has that wire...
I'm hoping when my "junk" MPU's come in - I can use the parts from them to repair this one!


and congratulations on your 2000th post!  

[Buzz]

How many Ram Clears did you try?

Jim  No I didn't do any clears on the machine, I promiced you I would lighten up on the clears. Besides I had already cleared it when I got it.

The one thing I didn't do that I should have tried was just reseating the old chips. Not that it means a whole lot, but I did read the old chips in the programmer (burner) and the check sums were OK. I did change the game chips from SG000155 to SG000363   and did that without reading a PSR, guess I'll get my pee pee slapped for that one.

Jim  I've come to the conclusion that there is no way that I can convince the general membership that with the exception of a few speciality games, any set of SG chips will work in any S 2000 game.  If it isn't listed on the PSR their not going to use them. What is the absolute worse thing that can happen if by chance you install the wrong game chips, the game won't work. Trust me it's not true if you use the wrong game chips, the candle isn't loaded with jet fuel and it will not go rocketing off you machine and flying around your game room or shop. ain't gonna happen.

Bunker I highly doubt that IGT's mod blew your chip (kind of think bunker did that one) I just thought it interresting that IGT did a mod to 5 reel drivers and one of them was did differently.

Tim 2000 post what does that tell ya I have to much time on my hands and I talk to much.  Thanks

[reho33]

Well my newer S2000 MPU does not have the green wires and the other one that I have that is about 10 years old DOES WTF(?)

[stayouttadabunker]

The serial numbers on the MPU might give a clue as to whether or not your "older" MPU is really...uh...older?

Now I REALLY want to check mine!!! 

[stayouttadabunker]

Okay...I did some digging around on my blown MPU board...

I had found a hole in the U67 P28AB MM74C240WM chip. (This is not good... )
The hole appeared after I incorrectly plugged in a bonus reel harness Molex into a plain back lit reel controller board. (wrong move... )

The 1st picture is what the U67 chip "should" look like.
The 2nd picture is what it looks like when pulling a dumbazz move... 
Needless to say - the board is dead and I'm just waiting on a new chip from mouser to get it going again.
Please click on photos to enlarge to see the details>>>

[stayouttadabunker]

This same 502 MPU board has the 5 green wire reel driver mods done to it talked about earlier.
Not until I replace the U67 chip will I know whether or not there was a mistake done with this mod.
Look closely at the 4th reel driver green wire placement.

Apparently the D723 chip (4th reel) is the only one where the green jumper is placed to the left side leg.
I've outlined it with a green rectangular box.
The others all have the green jumper wires on the right-hand side of their respective reel drivers?

The 2nd photo is the ID labeling of this board with the encrypted manufacturing date...?
It does look like "502" MPU boards are going on about 14 years old now!!!
Click photo to enlarge>>>>

[blueridgeslots]

The 2nd photo is the ID labeling of this board with the encrypted manufacturing date...?
It does look like "502" MPU boards are going on about 14 years old now!!!

I don't think so! the first 960 processor games were not manufactured until 1997 and they had 501's in them, I believe the first 502's were not until late 99 early 2000 with the different wiring configuration

[stayouttadabunker]

I'm a little confused then.
The i960 Intel microprocessor has a date of 1985 & 1989 on it.
The 502 MPU circuit board ASSY# is dated "1997" but,  has a revised label which has 3 numbers that change:

In the 1st picture below, the MPU board has a "250" after the "Date:"
In the 2nd picture, my spare MPU board has a "314".
Does anyone know how to decipher these 3 numbers? 
Click on photos to enlarge>>>

[FORDSBS]

Bunker, it seems your into these little chips on the board. Do you know if there is one of those that is for printer & if
so what spot is it in?
Thanks, Ford

[stayouttadabunker]

On an S2000, The printer harness is routed to the J14 ( Netplex Printer) 10-pin header on the motherboard.
One would NEED a very clear, readable set of board schematics to see where it goes onto the MPU from there.
My schematics are the worse sheets you can look at.
Even when I enlarge them - I still cannot read them.
What specifically is wrong with your printer?
Are you getting power to it.
Is the light on?
You might want to start a new thread for your printer as this one is really about S2000 reel problems?
Click to enlarge photo...>>>

[FORDSBS]

Thanks Bunker. I got it working the other day. Problem was on MPU. Thought if there was a chip on there I could check it.
I'll back out & let you get back to your problem

[CaptainHappy]

I'm a little confused then.
The i960 Intel microprocessor has a date of 1985 & 1989 on it.
The 502 MPU circuit board ASSY# is dated "1997" but,  has a revised label which has 3 numbers that change:

In the 1st picture below, the MPU board has a "250" after the "Date:"
In the 2nd picture, my spare MPU board has a "314".
Does anyone know how to decipher these 3 numbers? 
Click on photos to enlarge>>>

Bunker,

The 1997 date on the PCB is the copyright date for the design for the PCB, not the manufacturing date. Most times if there is a mfgr date it is tiny and on the solder side not the component side. Although I have never checked it out on IGT boards, and it varies from PCB maker. I will have to look when I get a chance.

CH

[stayouttadabunker]

Thanks for your answer Capt! 
I think I know why these MPU boards were "revised"....
They forgot to put traces on the circuits boards so they had to solder little green wires...
Amazing little engineering mistake huh?
I outlined in red where these needed traces could have perhaps been placed?...but I'm NOT a board designer so.....
I wonder how many boards IGT had to recall and who's idea it was to make this little fix?

[Buzz]

I wonder how many boards IGT had to recall and who's idea it was to make this little fix?

Mark  The simple asn. is ALL of them.  I've never seen a 502 or 504 board without the green wires !!  I would post a pic. of all the bad and spare boards I have but I don't have a wide angle lens. Every one of them has the mod. Look on the bottom side of the board and you will find a mod there also, they just changed colors of the wires.

Now on what we have been calling the enhanced board 75512701 no green wires present.

[CaptainHappy]

Thanks for your answer Capt! 
I think I know why these MPU boards were "revised"....
They forgot to put traces on the circuits boards so they had to solder little green wires...
Amazing little engineering mistake huh?
I outlined in red where these needed traces could have perhaps been placed?...but I'm NOT a board designer so.....
I wonder how many boards IGT had to recall and who's idea it was to make this little fix?

Mark,

I doubt that the boards were ever recalled, especially not by IGT! Most likely that was an error in their design that was discovered late in the process, and they may have already buit tons of the PCB's. When I used to build our own Single Board Computers and Motherboards we used to do a small prototype run of boards, and then we would do a larger production run with any needed corrections. Luckily I had really good designers, so most times we did not have to make changes. I would build a large run of PCBs (more cost effective) as that was the longest lead time item, and then send smaller batches to the assembly house for production as needed. Maybe IGT built a large number (like say 10,000) PCBs at one time and then had to do mods on them during the board assembly process.

On your picture it looked like the wire was going to surface mount capacitors, but I could not zoom in with enough detail to confirm. These items are polarized negative and positive so the one that is different than the four others would have it connected to negative vs positive of the other way around as I can't tell the component or polarity from your picture. BUT, if my thoughts are correct it is possible that you would not see this problem until the circuit for 4 and 5 reel setups is used as in your case when you connected the harness that uses 4 and 5 reels.

Have you been able to compare these wires on another board yet to see if that one is incorrectly installed?

Just some thoughts... I hope that I made sense. I can try to look at a board later to compare if you need.

CH

[CaptainHappy]

Mark,

I had been looking at your previous picture, and just noticed your newer picture you drew on has more definition, and those probable are not CAPS as I originally thought, so my previous post may be wrong... Will take some research later, gotta work now!

CH
T.O.M.

[Buzz]

Bunker  Let me interrupt for just this one post.

Back to the reel tilts. I went back to the original machine and reinstalled the SG000155 that I had removed, just in case all they just needed to be reseated. It didn't help still getting reel tilt.  Went back to the SB000363 and everything is OK

Now I have another machine doing the same thing, I have installed 3 different sets of SG000155 and one set of SG000129 still was getting reel tilt until it got a set of SG000363.  These machines are nothing special, first one is a 5 Times Pay and the other one is 5 Stars, just run of the mill 3 reel one line machines. Now keep this in mind I have about 20 more of these machines from the same litter that have SG000155 and they are working great. Yes I know the solution would be to change all of them to SG000363, but with the price of 8 Meg. chips close to 6 bucks each I'm reluctant to replace 40 working chips !! ( I must be part Jewish and no one told me)

OK Bunker you can have the thread BACK.     

[stayouttadabunker]

No that's okay Buzz...we all learn something new with your post!

I checked all 3 S2000 MPU's I have (yea! 3 !!)
They all have that 4th reel driver with the green wire on the left side of the SMD "cap".
So that must be the way the mod is done.
 
I also have that little yellow resistor on the back of all the boards like Buzz showed.
They are pretty much all similar but we still don't know how IGT dates the boards.
I have a "250"/a "314"/ and a "305".
All 3 boards have the same P/N and Code#.
The only differences are the Dates and Serial #'s
and that fact that one has an exploded U67 chip...

[CaptainHappy]

Mark,

I had been looking at your previous picture, and just noticed your newer picture you drew on has more definition, and those probable are not CAPS as I originally thought, so my previous post may be wrong... Will take some research later, gotta work now!

CH
T.O.M.

Bunker,

After I saw the clearer photo, I recognized the logo on that chip earlier, but did not have time to look further as if I have work, I am lucky and it gets priority!

As I thought, that part is not a SMT cap as I originally thought from your first picture, it is actually a "PLASTIC SURFACE MOUNT ZENER VOLTAGE REGULATOR DIODE" 1SMB5927BT3 to be exact!!! Data Sheet Attached for the fun of it!

We used some ON-SEMI parts on some of our computer board designs in the past.

CH

[Yoeddy1]

Ahh, the power of updated and/or latest and greatest chips and firmware.  I still think that my Triple Double Wild Cherry scenario (see a few pages back) has to do with updated chips.  At the time, IGT had a technical bulletin that was released concerning a reel lighting problem when the original SB chip was used.  This chip had all of the cool sounds of the DSV42 chip unlocked.  So what does IGT do?  They release an updated SB chip to cure the lighting problem, but screwed up the sounds and only the legacy sounds were available...which blows.  Who knows what the MPU or SG versions were at that time.  

Anyway, so Rob and I test our machines with 363's and the old problematic SB chips, and low and behold everything works just fine.  No need for the updated crappy chip.  I'm sure there was pushback on IGT to fix the lighting problem somewhere else and ensure that ALL of the DSV42 sounds available whether that be an MPU update, SG chip, etc, who knows.

Remember friends, anything can be fixed in software/firmware.  

Jason

[stayouttadabunker]

Ah! Excellent, EXCELLENT posts gentlemen!  
I do really appreciate the thought put into those ones.
It takes an amazing amount of research to make posts like that...
Those are the ones where we all learn from each other!  

ADD>>> I saved the data sheet Capt!
I will take a good look at it very soon! Thanks!