S+ Head Scratcher!

[sblair]

I bought an S+ the other day that the owner said wasn't working properly, said it wasn't taking coins.  We powered it up there for a minute before we left.  The machine powered up.  The wheels were twitching a bit and the display had a flicker to it I believe it was showing a 41 error.  I didn't try anything else there.

I got it home, before powering it up again I noticed a lot of nickels back around the xfrmr and floating around the back.  I fished them all out.  Pulled the MPU and visually checked behind it.  Put the MPU back in and powered it up.  Nothing.  Just the Fluoros.  No other sounds, lamps, or reels.  Just appears dead.

I pulled the MPU board to put it in my other working S+ and noticed the battery had one leg completely loose.  I soldered it back.  Put it in my working S+ and had to clear the 61 error.  After that it came up and worked fine in my good S+ machine.  So I know the MPU and it's xfrmr is good.

I put it back in the original S+ and it's still completely dead.  I metered the xfrmr and at the connector going to the backplane and all the taps have the right voltages.  I've reseated all the connectors in the machine, still no dice. 

I'm scratching my head at this point.  Is it likely there could be a problem with the back plane card?  I know the MPU is good since it works in my other machine.

Anything you guys could suggest at this point would be great!.

Thanks.
Scott

[stayouttadabunker]

Pay the electric bill...

Check the 3 fuses?
Top=8A
Middle=6A
Bottom=8A

all quick blows

[sblair]

First thing I did was check the fuses.  I measured the xfrmr voltages at the connector that plugs into the backplane card too, which are after they have gone through the fuse....just in case there there was a problem with the fuseholder itself.

[stayouttadabunker]

Hmm...try wiggling the harness that goes from the "x4mer" to the motherboard?
When you wiggle it with the power on...the reels should "hold"

[sblair]

Yeah, I tried doing that too....  no love

[Buzz]

I'm still trying to figure out what a xfrmr and a x4mer are ?  Is that a new way of saying power supply?

 

I got it home, before powering it up again I noticed a lot of nickels back around the xfrmr and floating around the back.  I fished them all out.  Pulled the MPU and visually checked behind it.  Put the MPU back in and powered it up.  Nothing.  Just the Fluoros.  No other sounds, lamps, or reels.  Just appears dead.

Anything you guys could suggest at this point would be great!.

Thanks.
Scott

You fished out the nickels and looked behind the MPU, I think you had better look under the Mother Board  for coins.

[sblair]

xfmr is a standard abbreviation for transformer.

A transformer is a component of a power supply, but typically is not the entirety of the power supply.

[knagl]

As Buzz said, I'd check under the motherboard (the fixed board that sits on the bottom of the cabinet which the removable MPU board plugs into) for any stray coins or metal pieces, and then look closely at the connector that goes from the power supply to the motherboard.  Look on the outside and inside of the plug for signs of burning or obvious discoloration.

Based on what you've described, the power connection harness is a likely suspect.  With the power off, be sure to check all of the other connectors, too, to make sure they're seated correctly.  I'd suggest plugging and unplugging the harness that runs between the power supply and the motherboard a few times to help clean the contacts and insure that the power is getting to the motherboard.

[poppo]

xfmr is a standard abbreviation for transformer.

A transformer is a component of a power supply, but typically is not the entirety of the power supply.

I think Buzz was just being facetious. There are some 'standard' terms used here, and things sometimes get confusing when people start using other names. For example, 'backplane' is often used as the term for a board that others plug into. But here it's called a motherboard. And since the S+ power supply only has a transformer (i.e. no diodes, regulators, et.) it's just referred to as 'power supply'.

[slot monkey]

poppo, thanks for the explanation.

If Buzz had not asked it, I'm sure that I would have.

[sblair]

I have picked up on others here calling the backplane the "motherboard" which is completely bizarre to me.  Is that IGT's official term for it?  A motherboard is typicallly the main board in a device.  It defies comprehension that the: backplane, transition board, medusa card, whatever term you choose is actually being called a motherboard here.  I'd love to hear the logic for that.

There is a DC power supply in an S+, it is just integrated on the mainboard and not a seperate module.  Checking the power supply to me would still involve metering the DC voltage rails on the MPU board.

[poppo]

I have picked up on others here calling the backplane the "motherboard" which is completely bizarre to me.  Is that IGT's official term for it?  A motherboard is typicallly the main board in a device.  It defies comprehension that the: backplane, transition board, medusa card, whatever term you choose is actually being called a motherboard here.  I'd love to hear the logic for that.

It is the official name used by IGT.  The 'main board' is the MPU.

And the term is technically correct because all other 'daughter' items plug into it.

Right from the IGT manual.

[sblair]

Thanks Poppo.  I was guessing it must have been an unfortunate mis-naming by IGT for it to have persisted here.  It also drive me nuts that they use the wrong form of "Embedded" for the Bill Acceptor.  It is an "Embedded Bill Acceptor", not an "Imbedded Bill Acceptor".

Either there was very poor communication between the Engineers and Technical Writers at IGTor they had some folks that were just fairly ignorant in their product design experience.  Having been an EE and Software Engineer designing products and systems for many years, abuse of terminology drives me nuts.

Oh well, back to scratching my head over this S+.   

[poppo]

Oh well, back to scratching my head over this S+.  

I think you were given some good advice earlier. First check the power cable from the power supply to the motherboard. If it's not making good contact, then the whole power distribution is going to be screwed up. If a coin got under the motherboard, it may have burned up a power trace or just shorting something that will prevent the MPU from booting.

Also re-seat every connector on the motherboard.

[sblair]

I have gone through and reseated all the connectors to the "motherboard"  

The next thing is to pull the motherboard out and check it.  It has foam gasketing around the bottom that makes it appear like a pretty tight fit, but it is the next most logical issue.  I had planned to try and swap with my good S+ to verify it.  The bad machine has the motherboard MPU on the left and the good S+ has it in the back behind the hopper, so it is more of a pain to swap.

I agree I was a little suspicious of the power connector.  It appears fine and I've reseated it and wiggled it, but I know those contacts can be problematic.  I planned to check it again by metering the underside of the motherboard with it plugged in after pulling it out.

[cowboygames]

Thanks Poppo.  I was guessing it must have been an unfortunate mis-naming by IGT for it to have persisted here.  It also drive me nuts that they use the wrong form of "Embedded" for the Bill Acceptor.  It is an "Embedded Bill Acceptor", not an "Imbedded Bill Acceptor".

Either there was very poor communication between the Engineers and Technical Writers at IGTor they had some folks that were just fairly ignorant in their product design experience.  Having been an EE and Software Engineer designing products and systems for many years, abuse of terminology drives me nuts.

Oh well, back to scratching my head over this S+.   

they mean exactly the same thing, what's the big deal?

[poppo]

they mean exactly the same thing, what's the big deal?

After doing some googling, it seems embedded is the more popular term. But I agree, they are synonyms.

[sblair]

they mean exactly the same thing, what's the big deal?

Having done EMBEDDED systems design for many years.  I see the word "embedded" frequently used in many different contexts by many manufacturers and authors.  I have never ever once seen anyone spell it as "imbedded."  Frankly it makes someone at IGT look fairly ignorant and as an Engineer that has to pay attention to details for a living it bugs the f--k out of me seeing it

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1440571

[poppo]

 I have never ever once seen anyone spell it as "imbedded." 

But you just did above. 

 Frankly it makes someone at IGT look fairly ignorant and as an Engineer that has to pay attention to details for a living it bugs the f--k out of me seeing it

No offense, but thrashing IGT and the terms they have been using for decades is not going to help get your machine fixed. People are here to help with the problem, and not be the grammar police.

[cowboygames]

Alright, on the ground and spread'em mister     

[sblair]

I pulled the "motherboard" out tonight and I'm pretty sure I see the problem now!  The trace coming off J8 pin 1+2 is burned off.  I'm wondering what caused that.  The MPU board seems to run fine in my other S+ so nothing appears to be fried that would have caused this. 

The schematics I have are a fairly poor scan.  Are pins 1 and 2 on J8 supposed to be bussed together on the PCB?  When I measure the burned trace it goes to both Pin 1 and 2.  This could be possible since those are both Common terminals for the 2 sets of windings.

Anyone see this happen before?

[stayouttadabunker]

What happened is something inside the machine fell onto nearby contacts for more than a
momentary moment and shorted out...sparks flew and forced the
piece of metal elsewhere in the machine.
This, of course, ....is  PURE SPECULATION on my part....



uh...IGT does nothing "logical"....

For example...sometimes they label a 2 coin machine chip with a number like SB100053.
However, the 3 coin machine chip will have a label with a number like SB100052!!!!!  
Confuses the heck outta people! lol

[poppo]

Are pins 1 and 2 on J8 supposed to be bussed together on the PCB?  

Yes.

Damage was probably from a coin floating around at some point. Since that connector is in the front, even with the foam, it would be easy to have one slide under and hit the contacts.

Or you could have a short somewhere else since the motherboard distributes power to other things besides the MPU

[sblair]

At least we agree IGT is not logical

Your speculation is very probable, but I'm not seeing anything it could have shorted to is the thing.  There was the clear plastic shield on top that covers most of it and I can't see where any other shorting could have occurred. 

Looking closer at the solder side of the PCB I can see where pins 1/2 are bussed together so that answers that question.  My eyes aren't what they used to be.

[stayouttadabunker]

..but I'm not seeing anything it could have shorted to is the thing....  

That's because it's in somebody's pocket now as change...



Anyways, 24Vac at 6A rating runs through the J8...should NOT be "fused" together!!! lol
Unless you meant buss fused?
By the way guys "IGT does use "xfmer" in their schematics!  ( okay, "PWR XFMER" )
Maybe this will help you? >>>