Mikohn Progressive Controllers Displays and other info

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   Re: Mikohn Progressive Controllers Displays and other info
« Reply #956 on: April 30, 2007, 11:01:00 AM »   

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Quote from: Cactusjack on April 30, 2007, 09:05:02 AM
This discussion comes up often - wanting to use an inexpensive PC power supply just for the +12Volts.

While in theory, it should work, in practice, it might not.  This is because a PC power supply is designed around regulating the +5V (and not the +3.3V) while the 12 volts is just a tag along as to regulation.  Most Switching regulators only monitor the 5 volts and not the 12.  Without a load of any kind on the +5, there is no reference and to load down the +12, can cause issues.  Typically, the power supply may only power up for a second and overshoot its 5 volt target and then shut down.  When you turn down the 5 volt adjustment (if it even has one) low enough to keep it running, the 12 volts is usually way under 12. You can solve this issue by adding a load to the +5 volt line (red and black on the Hard drive connectors).  A 1 ohm 10 watt resistor will work, but, may also generate heat.  If you can mount it inside the power supply near the fan openings, or get the screw down power resistor type and mount it to the power supply case - that will work too.

But, the better choice, in my opinion, is to purchase a +12VDC ONLY power supply.  They use to be fairly reasonable from Happ Controls (around $30) but now I see they have raised the price to over $40 in single qty.  http://www.happcontrols.com/powersupplies/80021500.htm

Of course, any surplus 12 volt regulated power supply would work too as long as it can deliver enough amperage for your display.  Since the Mikohn are continually scanning the LEDs, they really work a power supply hard (continuously high load, no load conditions).  This is why you typically hear them zinging when the display is lit.

CJ

So, the solution for issue # 1 would be to make sure the PS has separately regulated outputs, correct?

As far as #2 goes, I have a CHAMII+ and thought the displays are 5VDC? 

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   Re: Mikohn Progressive Controllers Displays and other info
« Reply #957 on: April 30, 2007, 01:13:59 PM »   

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Good Point.  I was thinking the older Mikohn power supply which was +10VDC only.  The newer stuff, uses the +5 as well as the +12 and therefore, should work.

Yes, seperately regulated outputs would be great, but, do to production costs, the +12 is usually a second winding on the same Switching transformer as the +5.  Fortuately for the CPU, the 3.3v is usually a seperate regulator IC and transformer.

If you are using these for the newer CHAMII+ (uses both 5 and 12) then one of the Cheap Amusement/Video game screw terminal power supplies might be a good choice.  The 12 is used to create the +5 regulated for the CHAMII+ chips and therefore, doesn't even need to be regulated.  The +5 to the display is obviosly used to drive the LEDs themselves. This is the voltage that gets a work out by the display.

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-15-amp-Power-Supply-for-Arcade-game-60-day-warranty_W0QQitemZ270115743992QQihZ017QQcategoryZ13718QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/POWER-SUPPLY-SWITCHABLE-15-AMP-NEW-LOWER-PRICE_W0QQitemZ120112512872QQihZ002QQcategoryZ13718QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

CJ

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   Re: Mikohn Progressive Controllers Displays and other info
« Reply #959 on: April 30, 2007, 02:18:33 PM »   

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Didn't mean to indicate there was a CHANGE in the power supply for CHAMII+.  Just that, the older stuff LED5 (CHAMI) used a 10.8 V power supply (or something like that) to power both the LEDs and the Logic.  On the CHAMII+ (and I think the CHAMII), there are two power sources needed (5 and 12 from the same power supply).

CJ
 
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   Re: Mikohn Progressive Controllers Displays and other info
« Reply #958 on: April 30, 2007, 01:28:46 PM »   

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Ahh! Good karma for you, CJ, thanks for the links.

Being a n00b, I wasn't aware there was a difference in the models of CHAMII+ that included a power supply change.
 
 

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   Re: Mikohn Progressive Controllers Displays and other info
« Reply #960 on: April 30, 2007, 06:47:06 PM »   

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Ok, that's good to know.

Quick logic check please:

CHAMI = LED5

CHAMII = LED4?

I keep hearing the terms LED4 and LED5, just trying to get them sorted out in the old brain.

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   Re: Mikohn Progressive Controllers Displays and other info
« Reply #961 on: April 30, 2007, 08:25:45 PM »   

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Nope.

Both the LED4 & 5 are Cham1 boards.
LED stands for Link Extension Device.
The LED5 is the small inmachine style of display and the LED4 is for the larger overhead signs.
Both the LED4 & 5 are driven from a CON1.
We have heard of and someone once posted a picture of a standalone Cham1 but they are very rare.
The Led4 is sometimes also referred to as a Cham4 or Cham44 as that is what is etched into the board.

The ChamII boards are a LINK device. You need a CON2 (also known as a supercontroller) to drive them.
A ChamII+  is standalone but has the option to be put into link mode.
The large signs are known as a supreme are driven from the CON2 directly.

Con1 & LED4/5 is the older series of equipment
Con2 & ChamII is the newer series and is often still found in the casinos.

Cost wise the ChamII+ is the most economical device to do a standalone but if you are getting into LINKED progressives CON2 and Supremes can run you more than a few dollars.
 

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   Re: Mikohn Progressive Controllers Displays and other info
« Reply #965 on: May 01, 2007, 07:43:06 PM »   

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There is nothing in the Mikohn Manual that would suggest sound capability and there is no obvious sound out on the ChamI or II series - so unless you use the downloader to send a sound file to the Supreme or other such display directly I don't see that its supported. The PDF (and no this does not mean adobe format) files that you create and download to the supreme might be able to play tunes. Idesign might have more info on that.

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   Re: Mikohn Progressive Controllers Displays and other info
« Reply #966 on: May 01, 2007, 07:47:43 PM »   

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Quote from: Jay on May 01, 2007, 07:43:06 PM
There is nothing in the Mikohn Manual that would suggest sound capability and there is no obvious sound out on the ChamI or II series - so unless you use the downloader to send a sound file to the Supreme or other such display directly I don't see that its supported. The PDF (and no this does not mean adobe format) files that you create and download to the supreme might be able to play tunes. Idesign might have more info on that.

Page 20 of the CHAMII+ manual, page 20, has the following:

Sound
                   Sound has 2 settings: ENABLED and DISABLED this tells the CHAMII+ whether or not to execute sound commands. You can download sound commands to the CHAMII+ using Download software. If set to ENABLED, the CHAMII+ transmits sound codes via the RS-232 port. During transmission, you will not be able to use this port (DB9 pin connector) with PSP or any other communications program.

 

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   Re: Mikohn Progressive Controllers Displays and other info
« Reply #967 on: May 01, 2007, 08:16:12 PM »   

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Those are sound activaton codes - not sounds.

The sound would be stored in the sign - you are just triggering the sound - same way back grounds are selected and activated.

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   Re: Mikohn Progressive Controllers Displays and other info
« Reply #968 on: May 01, 2007, 08:40:47 PM »   

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Quote from: Jay on May 01, 2007, 08:16:12 PM
Those are sound activaton codes - not sounds.

The sound would be stored in the sign - you are just triggering the sound - same way back grounds are selected and activated.

Ok, I can understand that.

The documentation I'm looking for would contain some of the following info:

What signs have this functionality?

What software is used to upload the sound files to the sign?

What are the acceptable formats for the sound files? E.g., .wav, .mp3?  What about sampling rates and codec? Are they standard codecs, such as G.711A and Ulaw, G.728, etc., iLBC, AAC-LD, or are they proprietary?

Basically, everything I need to know to find the parts I need to build a whopping sign with sound! 

I know a house in Stateline that needs some livening up. 

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   Re: Mikohn Progressive Controllers Displays and other info
« Reply #971 on: May 02, 2007, 04:46:06 AM »   

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Are you using a Supreme? If, so, you need to use the windows downloader to program it to play sounds.  You also need to have the ability to create the sounds so it's not that easy.  The sound files will consume the memory on the Supreme and limit the amount of graphics you can display.....plus the sound will not be corresponding to a graphic or an event (like if you hit a jackpot).

For what it's worth, I gave up on playing sounds and concentrated on the graphics.

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   Re: Mikohn Progressive Controllers Displays and other info
« Reply #972 on: May 02, 2007, 08:20:19 AM »   

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Quote from: idesign on May 02, 2007, 04:46:06 AM
Are you using a Supreme? If, so, you need to use the windows downloader to program it to play sounds.  You also need to have the ability to create the sounds so it's not that easy.  The sound files will consume the memory on the Supreme and limit the amount of graphics you can display.....plus the sound will not be corresponding to a graphic or an event (like if you hit a jackpot).

For what it's worth, I gave up on playing sounds and concentrated on the graphics.

Good info, Jeff!

Creating the sound files is easy. Since I work with digital sound (and video) in many different formats every day, I've got software with that capability on hand. The format the sound needs to be in is one of the questions I have, though, and I can't seem to find any documentation on it.

Is there a manual for the Download software?

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   Re: Mikohn Progressive Controllers Displays and other info
« Reply #973 on: May 02, 2007, 09:36:01 AM »   

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While I am not at all familiar with the actual requirements to add sound to a Sign or progressive, I add the two following thoughts.

There was a device called a Jackpot Trigger Device (JPTD+) which was used to interface the progressive controllers to the outside world.  It too, uses the RS232 port to send "Sound Commands" not sound files (as far as I would understand it).

In the JPTD+ Technical Manual for the firmware version 1.04, it discusses the Sound option along with Sound Code, Sound Period, Attract Mode, and 2 Minute Message Mode along with Baud Rate.  Additionally this is the exact text from page 21 of the JPTD TM:
Note: The options Sound Code, Sound Period, Attract Mode, and 2-Minute Message Code must be used in conjuction with the Clever Devices Sound Card, Model Number CD-40

While I am not familiar with that exact Clever Devices Sound board, I have worked with two other products made by Clever Devices Typically used by the amusement industry to add sound to games.  The earlier Design used the OKI M5205 chip and the later version used the OKI MSM6295.  Both of these chips use OKI ADPCM sound data files.  The 6295 style board had a small Microcontroller labeled as S232_006 (probably stood for RS232 and perhaps the board rate) which was used to interface the outside product (game) to the sound circuitry (oki chip).  The boards contained at least one eprom, which contained the sound files.  The 5205 was a primative chip.  All it basically did was take the 8 bit ADPCM word and convert it into a voltage change.  It would then trigger an external counter (usually a CMOS 4040 counter) for the next data address.  It would just count through all the data and loop over and over again.  The host computer (not on the sound card) would have to bank select the desired chunks of sound data.  It could handle only one sample speed (set by a R/C Clock or Crystal clock) which would have to match the sample rate that the sound was stored at. It was up to the host processor to tell the sound board to shut up otherwise, it would just keep looping through the selected sound. This was done by the host computer knowing how long a particular sound would take to play and then shut it down after that amount of time.

The 6295 is a more intelligent sound processor.  It actually uses tables in the sound rom to tell it where to find the sound files for up to 128 sounds.  I could only address a 2 meg eprom but larger memory maps can be banked for more sound.

Unfortunately, neither of these two boards have part numbers on them.  Only the Clever Devices name.

 

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   Re: Mikohn Progressive Controllers Displays and other info
« Reply #974 on: May 02, 2007, 09:48:06 AM »   

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This is all I could find on Clever Devices:

http://www.abledata.com/abledata.cfm?pageid=113582&orgid=112236

 

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   Re: Mikohn Progressive Controllers Displays and other info
« Reply #975 on: May 02, 2007, 09:54:17 AM »   

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Quote from: brichter on May 02, 2007, 08:20:19 AM
Quote from: idesign on May 02, 2007, 04:46:06 AM
Are you using a Supreme? If, so, you need to use the windows downloader to program it to play sounds.  You also need to have the ability to create the sounds so it's not that easy.  The sound files will consume the memory on the Supreme and limit the amount of graphics you can display.....plus the sound will not be corresponding to a graphic or an event (like if you hit a jackpot).

For what it's worth, I gave up on playing sounds and concentrated on the graphics.

Good info, Jeff!

Creating the sound files is easy. Since I work with digital sound (and video) in many different formats every day, I've got software with that capability on hand. The format the sound needs to be in is one of the questions I have, though, and I can't seem to find any documentation on it.

Is there a manual for the Download software?

The manual is silent on the format.  It just shows how to use the sound window in the background.bat file maker.

Do you have a Supreme or a CHAMII+?

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   Re: Mikohn Progressive Controllers Displays and other info
« Reply #976 on: May 02, 2007, 10:51:45 AM »   

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Quote from: idesign on May 02, 2007, 09:54:17 AM
[
The manual is silent on the format.  It just shows how to use the sound window in the background.bat file maker.

Do you have a Supreme or a CHAMII+?

Hi, Jeff.  I have a CHAMII+ right now, the Supreme is on the way. Should be here by the end of the week.

CJ, good stuff on the JPTD+, sound devices and codec used, one of my creation/conversion applications does all of the different pulse code modulation variations. May not be totally applicable, but a place to start searching/reading, anyway.

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   Re: Mikohn Progressive Controllers Displays and other info
« Reply #977 on: May 02, 2007, 11:26:18 AM »   

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I just realized that you were the person who won that auction for the display and the Supreme.  That was a good price for them.  One thing you should know about it is that the display is a 1 X 3, but the Supreme is marked 1 X 2.  This means that the Supreme's on-board memory and fonts in the ROM are set up for a 2 panel display, not a 3 panel display.  The fonts part isn't that bad, since it's for displaying progressive amounts and/or messages which you would need a CON2 for.  However, the on-board memory will severely restrict your use of the entire display for graphics.  You can display 2 panel graphics on a 3 panel display though.

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   Re: Mikohn Progressive Controllers Displays and other info
« Reply #978 on: May 02, 2007, 06:08:51 PM »   

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Quote from: idesign on May 02, 2007, 11:26:18 AM
I just realized that you were the person who won that auction for the display and the Supreme.  That was a good price for them.  One thing you should know about it is that the display is a 1 X 3, but the Supreme is marked 1 X 2.  This means that the Supreme's on-board memory and fonts in the ROM are set up for a 2 panel display, not a 3 panel display.  The fonts part isn't that bad, since it's for displaying progressive amounts and/or messages which you would need a CON2 for.  However, the on-board memory will severely restrict your use of the entire display for graphics.  You can display 2 panel graphics on a 3 panel display though.

Ok, any way to upgrade memory, or am I looking for another Supreme?

BTW, how do you know that?

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   Re: Mikohn Progressive Controllers Displays and other info
« Reply #979 on: May 03, 2007, 03:59:38 AM »   

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Quote from: brichter on May 02, 2007, 06:08:51 PM
Quote from: idesign on May 02, 2007, 11:26:18 AM
I just realized that you were the person who won that auction for the display and the Supreme.  That was a good price for them.  One thing you should know about it is that the display is a 1 X 3, but the Supreme is marked 1 X 2.  This means that the Supreme's on-board memory and fonts in the ROM are set up for a 2 panel display, not a 3 panel display.  The fonts part isn't that bad, since it's for displaying progressive amounts and/or messages which you would need a CON2 for.  However, the on-board memory will severely restrict your use of the entire display for graphics.  You can display 2 panel graphics on a 3 panel display though.

Ok, any way to upgrade memory, or am I looking for another Supreme?

BTW, how do you know that?

No way to upgrade, the memory is surface mounted flash ram........find another Supreme and make sure it's got a 1 X 3 label on it.

How do I know what?  The 1 X 2?  The Supreme had a 1 X 2 label on it.

I have several large overhead displays including 1 X 2, 1 X 3 and 2 X 3..........connected to a CON2.

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   Re: Mikohn Progressive Controllers Displays and other info
« Reply #979 on: May 03, 2007, 03:59:38 AM »   

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Quote from: brichter on May 02, 2007, 06:08:51 PM
Quote from: idesign on May 02, 2007, 11:26:18 AM
I just realized that you were the person who won that auction for the display and the Supreme.  That was a good price for them.  One thing you should know about it is that the display is a 1 X 3, but the Supreme is marked 1 X 2.  This means that the Supreme's on-board memory and fonts in the ROM are set up for a 2 panel display, not a 3 panel display.  The fonts part isn't that bad, since it's for displaying progressive amounts and/or messages which you would need a CON2 for.  However, the on-board memory will severely restrict your use of the entire display for graphics.  You can display 2 panel graphics on a 3 panel display though.

Ok, any way to upgrade memory, or am I looking for another Supreme?

BTW, how do you know that?

No way to upgrade, the memory is surface mounted flash ram........find another Supreme and make sure it's got a 1 X 3 label on it.

How do I know what?  The 1 X 2?  The Supreme had a 1 X 2 label on it.

I have several large overhead displays including 1 X 2, 1 X 3 and 2 X 3..........connected to a CON2.

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   Re: Mikohn Progressive Controllers Displays and other info
« Reply #980 on: May 03, 2007, 08:33:48 AM »   

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Quote from: idesign on May 03, 2007, 03:59:38 AM

No way to upgrade, the memory is surface mounted flash ram........find another Supreme and make sure it's got a 1 X 3 label on it.

How do I know what?  The 1 X 2?  The Supreme had a 1 X 2 label on it.

I have several large overhead displays including 1 X 2, 1 X 3 and 2 X 3..........connected to a CON2.

Hmm. I can't make out anything on there that has 1x2 on it, the pics are kind of blurry.  Me eyes must be getting bad in my old age. 

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   Re: Mikohn Progressive Controllers Displays and other info
« Reply #981 on: May 03, 2007, 10:48:24 AM »   

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I copied a portion of the auction photo for you.  The thing to look for is a small label somewhere on the board indicating what size display it's for.  In this case the label is to the left of the firmware prom.  It's a bit blurry but it is PDF 1 X 2.   If it was labelled 2 X 3 instead, that would be OK to use on a 1 X 2 display.  All that means is that there is enough memory on board to run a up to a 2 X 3 display.  The download software is used to program the fonts, graphics, etc into the Supreme, so the more the memory, the more that is displayed.

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   Re: Mikohn Progressive Controllers Displays and other info
« Reply #983 on: May 03, 2007, 07:07:33 PM »   

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Quote from: idesign on May 03, 2007, 10:50:49 AM
By the way, PDF is not an Acrobat file in this case.

Yup.   Progressive Definition File.

Not sure what to make of this, though. Pic 1 is the sign when I first powered it up. Pic 2 is after I swapped the middle and right displays, and vacuumed out the dust. Looks like a bad display, correct?

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   Re: Mikohn Progressive Controllers Displays and other info
« Reply #984 on: May 03, 2007, 08:02:35 PM »   

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You may want to frame that picture, it's hard to find a woman that'll use a vaccumm let alone get on her hands and knees to use it.l

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   Re: Mikohn Progressive Controllers Displays and other info
« Reply #985 on: May 03, 2007, 08:34:42 PM »   

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Quote from: Brianzz on May 03, 2007, 08:02:35 PM
You may want to frame that picture, it's hard to find a woman that'll use a vaccumm let alone get on her hands and knees to use it.l


         


I'm laughing so hard I could cry, my daughter has a small problem with that statement.

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   Re: Mikohn Progressive Controllers Displays and other info
« Reply #986 on: May 04, 2007, 03:17:25 AM »   

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Quote from: brichter on May 03, 2007, 07:07:33 PM
Quote from: idesign on May 03, 2007, 10:50:49 AM
By the way, PDF is not an Acrobat file in this case.

Yup.   Progressive Definition File.

Not sure what to make of this, though. Pic 1 is the sign when I first powered it up. Pic 2 is after I swapped the middle and right displays, and vacuumed out the dust. Looks like a bad display, correct?

Yes, most likely a bad display. Looks like you have a combination of bad color and dead cells on one dispaly.   I've seen them with bad color cells before and those can sometimes be fixed by reseating all the chips on the piggy back board.  Just for grins try swapping the biggy back boards to see what happens. 

Jeff