Help finding the right chip

[TZtech]

And as for the rs chip in the s+ board I looked around and found that we have a few (like 3) machines that are in operation with that setup, they all are the same theme so really it's just one type other than the colossus.

Do any of these have the same BV setup?

I was with Poppo on the posibility that this setup does not support a bv but it does seem to be using the official connector on the MB so I am changing my mind on this. Although electrically the interfaces may be the same the pulse train expected from the bv and the coin comp are not so its unlikely that the bv was tied to an optic input (Also in order for a coin to register all three coin optics have to be triggered in a specific sequence). The mystery board does not appear to have the logic do do such a conversion.

Also, when you go into self test on the RS chip, is there even a 9_0 or 9_1 (BV enable). These are viewable on a SP chip whether the BV is enabled or not (you just can't change it without a set chip). If there is no 9_X setting, then that would be further indicate that the RS chip does not support a BV in the code

This would be a good idea to check. You can also check you input and input test to see if you are getting pulses from your bv (as its permanently enabled it should change status on note in)

Anyway if somebody could produce a PSR it would be great - At this point there is a lot of guessing going on.

[poppo]

Anyway if somebody could produce a PSR it would be great - At this point there is a lot of guessing going on.

Yeah, I can't believe that after like 12 pages nobody has a PRS. A PSR for any RS chip would probably help.

[Mirage_Chaser]

Ok I have some new information, first the cashcode acceptor is operating in pulse mode (which we kind of figured) and has only a 6 connector plug and only 4 connections are being used. The twelve pin connector going into the bottom of the ba housing is connected to more then just the ba. There are some unused lights and a second power supply for the BA.

Of the connector connected directly to the BA only pins 1-4 are being used. One wire must go to the meter board, that people keep calling the mystery board, as it increments. 2 are power and one must make its way in some form to the motherboard. In this mode the ba is not looking for the machine to allow ba use so it is enabled from as soon as it get power. I attached the file that I got the information from.

This still might leave us in the same place. Maybe I just need to enable the ba so the machine is looking for the pulse when it comes.

As for checking the setting please forgive my ignorance but in what form would the settings be displayed? For instance would the 9_1 setting be displayed as 9 in the credits played display and the 1 in the credits window? Or is that it should be 9 and 1 in both the same display window?

Also if anyone has any information on the meter board it might be useful the assembly number is 7690860

[stayouttadabunker]

It looks like these CashCode BV's are in "vending" mode like the ones
used in soda machines and Cherry master games.

I think you need to follow that 4th wire and see where it's going to.
If it's going to the motherboard, report back what header and pin number it's attached to and located in.
That will give us a clue as to which signal line the motherboard is picking up the credits on.

To answer your other question for the self test numbers displayed... follow me here.
Each press of the little white test button should give you these numbers in the display panel.
You should have a zero in the Coins Played window and all the other windows blank
except for the "Insert Coin" window - it should be lit up.
If your display is initially displayed this way - you know there are no credits on the machine
and it is ready to accept a coin.
Here we go...>>>

1st press of little white test button= There should be a zero in Credits window and all others blank.
2nd press of little white test button= Two zeros in the Winner Paid window and a zero in the Coins Played window.
3rd press of little white test button= [5--X] in the Winner Paid window and a zero in the Coins Played window.

From this point here, you turn the reset key 4 times until you see a [9--0] in the Winner Paid window,
and a zero in the Coins Played window.
If it is displaying [9--0] then the BV is "Not Enabled".
You will need to change the value of the zero to a [1] in order to have the BV "Enabled" or "ON".
The zero signifying "OFF" while the "1" meaning it's "ON".
Is the "Spin" button lit up at this point?
If so, press it and see if the [9--0] value changes to a [9--1].
If it allows you to change that zero to a "1" - then leave it at that and get out of the self test options.
Whether or not an RS chip supports this with or without a SET chip remains to be seen.
If you don't even see a [9--X] anywhere in the self test options - then I'd say that the RS chip
doesn't support a BV and this whole contraption is getting credits some other strange way.

To get out of the self Test options, all you need to do is close the door
or press the test button intermittently until all the display windows go blank.

[poppo]

As for checking the setting please forgive my ignorance but in what form would the settings be displayed? For instance would the 9_1 setting be displayed as 9 in the credits played display and the 1 in the credits window? Or is that it should be 9 and 1 in both the same display window?

On a normal SP chip, you press the self test button a few times (it varies) and you will have a 0 on the coins played and a 5_X (X=0, 1 or 2) in the winner paid. Then turning the jackpot key will cycle through all of the page 0 options. The BV enable will show 9_X in the winner paid. 9_0 = not enabled 9_1 = enabled. But I don't know the procedure for a RS chip. That is why we need a PSR for one.

BTW, I have to ask, is there some reason you do not know how to check the settings in self test mode?

I still think that 'meter board' does something else. As already noted, it has too much circuitry just to increment a meter. And IF the BV is going to the MPU (as a normal BV and not a kludge), why not just use the meters from the S+ MPU?

<edit> This time Bunker typed faster than me. 

[Mirage_Chaser]

well that is definitly not what happens when I push the test switch

with the door open, a zero is displayed in the credits played window
with the first push of the test switch, zero in the credits played window and 1    1 in the winner paid window
with the second push of the test switch, 1 in the credits played window and 10   1 in the winner paid window
with the third push if the test switch, 2 in the credit played window and 10 in the winner paid window
with the fourth nothing in the credits played and 50 in the winner paid window and I tried to key it thinking that this might be the right menu option it just increments 50, 51, 52 -56...

I agree that the meter board must do more I think that both signal wires go there first.

As for my ignorance of the s+ style menu I have only been here for a few months and the last time I worked on a s+ before that was almost 10 years before because that is when we got rid of the last bank of them at my last job.

[stayouttadabunker]

Keying [50] is the sound volume I think or probably the different sound "tones".
Pressing the "Spin" button will play the tones.

Go back and key [1--1]...that may bring you to the [9--0] options for the BV.

[poppo]

Well, it looks like a RS chip is different. Without a PSR, there is no telling what the settings mean or where to look.

Do you not have any spare S+ machines? I would still like to see what happens when you put that MPU with a set chip in one of them (i.e. if it boots or not). At this point there are still way too many variables. Could be a bad MPU, could be a bad motherboard, could be a bad 'meter board', could be a bad BV, could be just about anything (especially since something smoke checked to begin with).

If you had a spare S+, and get the MPU to boot with the set, you could then enable the BV, set the denomination and then put that mother board in the machine that is acting up.

Or even take this motherboard out and put in in anther machine temporarily and do the same and then put it back. The fact that none of the set chips are booting tells me something is wrong between the MPU and motherboard.

Did you ever try a clear chip?

[Mirage_Chaser]

I can change nothing in the [1--1] menu, the key switch and buttons don't seem to change anything
the next two the [10--1] turning the key switch increments the 10 and the one changes between 0 and 1 with different first numbers
and[10---] the keyswitch increments the 10 on both options the values go to 44 or 46

The casino I am at doesn't have psr's for any games. They must not have felt them necessary.

I have other s+'s but as I know so little about them I was concerned that I wouldn't be able to get that one back into operation as the are almost all progressive. The MPU that is in the machine now is from a slant that just came off the floor and was accepting bills when it came off, but as the motherboards on those games are different I wasn't able to use it.

<edit> the MPU was changed yesterday.

I didn't try a clear as I was under the impression that it would only be useful to clear credits and accounting information.

Also there is no bill meter originally on the game so the meter board provides that and may do double duty as a ba interface.

[stayouttadabunker]

The [10-1] are various tests and you're right about them going up to around 44-46 different tests.
Many of them check different things such as like coin diverter, solenoids and lights.

However, the "Spin" button is usually what activates the various tests once you're in them.
NOT being allowed to change the [1-1] option signifies to me that a SET chip is needed to get into the option to change the setting.

Utilizing a Clear chip as Poppo suggested "might" reset the whole MPU
and actually get your game up & running - accepting bills-to-credits...
It's definitely worth a shot at this point because your boss is too bloody cheap to purchase PSR sheets.


If I had a blinking idea of how the symbols are placed on your reel strips, I would have swapped the DBV for a JCM200, install proper, matching SP and SS chips and had that machine working weeks ago.

[poppo]

I didn't try a clear as I was under the impression that it would only be useful to clear credits and accounting information.

It does do that, but it also will check communication to the EEPROM and CMOS (since that is what it is clearing). If it doesn't work, something is wrong (most likely the EEPROM)

This thread is going on 13 pages. At some point you will need to start doing some sort of other testing. If there is no spare S+, or you don't want to mess one up, you can simply put the motherboard and MPU from this one in it long enough to see if you can get a set chip to boot. If it won't boot in another machine then the you need to determine if it's the MPU or the motherboard.

If it does boot, then I would be curious as to why it won't boot in the original machine. But at least you would be able to use the set chip to enable the BV and set the denomination (although I still think those settings are not used with a RS).

In any case, IMO we are just spinning our wheels until some sort of process of elimination is made.

[Mirage_Chaser]

Some elimination has been made it is unlikely that it is the mpu as I put in a known working one in yesterday

I will try the clear chip I have but there is no guarantee that it is the correct clear chip, I have 2 that are IGT clears but one is labeled 15 which I guess is supposed to mean it is a match to set chip 15 and the other just says IGT clear.

I will find a game to try the 15 in at least that should do no damage

[stayouttadabunker]

You have a reader at the casino right?
( you should...after all, you have an unused slot stepper test machine... ) 

Put the chip in the reader and see what the checksum number is!
Match the checksum # with the proper chip.

[Mirage_Chaser]

I think that our burner might do double duty as a reader but I won't be able to give that a try until tuesday it won't work with a 64-bit os and that is the soonest I will be able to bring my own pc in. I will try it and see if it works if not then I will have to try again on tuesday.

[stayouttadabunker]

Okay, in the meantime - fill out your profile since you have nothing else to do. 
Maybe an NLG member nearby can come help you out? 
I'd fly out there and fix it for ya but your boss is too cheap and cannot afford me...

Have a great weekend!!

[Jim]

here's what information I can provide:  prior to SSXXXX  Igt did use the RSxxxx  id system for there programs.  According to their CN (change notice) information  they refer to the 055 as the version type, and the RS xxxx as the paytable/game type. these RS chips can be used on S+ games (according to the Bible,it has RS chip numbers as usuable for certain games) they had to be games like DD, RWB, Wild Cherry, etc. just like you can use SSXXXX chips on S-2000 games.
The "S" model did not support any type of BV, no motherboard, no eeprom, no set chip.  all information was on the RS chip,e.g. game type, paytable, diagnostic tests, etc. there was no input or output test for the BV (on S+ its #26 and #27)  on the "S" model those numbers are assigned as spares.
however, the "S" did support progressives, that denomination was set in the diagnostic tests , Test # 6, and as stated earlier, the "S" model did not require any special way to clear tilts, just press the white test button, that's all that was required to clear a 61 code.
PSR's didn't come into existence until July of 1994.
On ANY S+ MACHINE  that has a bill acceptor, there has ALWAYS been some type of interface board  between the BV and the motherboard. on the 145/200 that board is located inside the black power supply. On the WBA series, its inside the power supply , on the After Market systems, they mounted the board on the  backwall, what these actually do???  I have never looked into it. but none the less they are there and they do something.
I would trace the bill in /bill out wires from the plug on J-6 motherboard to where they terminate and then try and figure out where they are coming from and what information they are carrying.
the power supply gets a 115vac input from the machine, the data is transferred via the bill in and bill out signals via the interface board, I don't know what the +vb and the 24vac power goes to and what it is used for (J-6). I don't know what is done  by using the set chip? is that the validate signal? perhaps the set chip is only needed when a JCM system is used.
I would focus on where the bill in signal comes from and why its not getting the data into the board.

Jim
       

[poppo]

The "S" model did not support any type of BV, no motherboard, no eeprom, no set chip.
 

THANK YOU Jim for confirming what some of us have been trying to say from the beginning.   So I think it would be safe to say the RS chip never even looks for an EEPROM or any settings made with a SET.

However, that said, since it is a S+ MPU, it still 'should' boot with a set chip because at this point in time (with just a set chip) there is no game or reel chip (and I confirmed a SET will boot without a reel chip).  So this might indicate some problem with the motherboard that may also be affecting why the BV does not work.

Might be a good isea to pull it out and inspect it again, especially around J6 (top and bottom). Whatever cause it to smoke in the first place may have done it again.
 

[Mirage_Chaser]

You got it! While you all were figuring out I tryied a different motherboard and was able to get the set chips to work! 15 works as it should and my new 5 gives a [62--0] error.
So with 15 in it was set [9--1] and so I figured I would try it now. So I connected the ba and and with the new motherboard and after the 15 set chip (though I am not sure that it did anything really now with all the info put forth) IT ACCEPTED A BILL! yay! It gave the wrong amount of credits but I found the setting 6 and changed it to a dollar and... it stole the bill. I was about to change it back but in my anger and smashing of buttons I put it in "credit" mode and it occured to me to try another bill and it worked again! So all I need to do now is lock it in credit mode (which it must have been before the board swaps) and I should be good!

So on that note anyone have an idea how to lock it in credit mode? I know I have a cheat sheet around here somewhere but I can't seem to find it right now.

[poppo]

Well, I'm glad you got it working. While I don't think the SET has anything to do with it, there aparently was something wrong with the motherboard.

[Mirage_Chaser]

Well, I'm glad you got it working. While I don't think the SET has anything to do with it, there aparently was something wrong with the motherboard.

I agree. Must have been.

[Mirage_Chaser]

Hey Jim any chance you know how to lock a machine in "credit" mode with an rs chip, just asking as you seemed to have more information then most on the rs games.

[poppo]

By credit mode do you mean wins going to credit instead of paying out of the hopper? The cash/credit button is a toggle. On a S+, the setting is that 5_x we mentioned earlier. You can set it to always go to credit or follow the cash/credit button (defaulting to one or the other).

On a S+, if you have it follow the cash/credit, it will go back to the default after a certain period of idle time as long as there are no credits.

So try removing all credits, then power up the machine and let it sit for a minute and see what it defaults to. It may be ok, but just got toggled.

[Jim]

I don't have any "S" machines in house, from memory, I don't think you can.  the way to check, enter the diagnostic mode,(press the white test button) as you advance to the input ,output, audio tests etc. you will see a 5_0, 5_1 or a 5_2 in one window,  the spin button should be lit, press it and see if the last digit will change, that's how it done on a S+, but from what I remember on a "S", it could not be changed, that's why they printed the directions for credit play on the coin play decal facsimile, "press cashout button for credit play"  you had to press this before play, the button would backlite and any hits would go to credit. if no action or plays ,after 30 seconds it would cancel itself and go back to the pay mode from hopper.


Jim

[Mirage_Chaser]

Yes that is what I mean. In this case if it is toggled to drop from the hopper as opposed to going to the credit window then the bill is stolen, when I toggle it to credit then the bill is accepted and the credits go to credit display. I am sure it is a byproduct of the way that this ba is connected but I remember being able to lock it in the credit mode and that is what I'd like to do now.

I realize that the ss and rs menus are different but I was hoping that knowing how to do it on a regular S+ would help me figure it out on the colossus.

Before all this happened this wasn't a problem so it must be set able. Keep in mind this is not a standard S.

[Jim]

it would stand to reason that if the option you want is not available in the RS data, then it must have been set up as a regular S+, the two chips associated with the S+ removed and the RS chip inserted for that game.

perhaps you can do that, you would need a SP and a SS chip to do this.  Don't know what infomation is contained in what chip. Don't know if you can get into the diagnostic modes with just a sp chip ?

that's the only way I know to change that 5_ option. 

did you try the RS diagnostic setting?

Jim