Help finding the right chip

[StatFreak]

okay good, is the machine running now?
If not, what exactly is wrong right now as we stand?

My understanding is the only problem (same as the very beginning) is the BV will take a bill, but not add credits.

 

Precisely. Let's stay on topic:

• There is no question that the RS chip works in this Big Bertha style S+.
• The specific SET chip didn't work in this machine and the RS chip might not support one.
• We don't really know if an older SET chip would work or not.
• We don't know for certain that the SET chip he used was good. (unless you can verify that it works in a regular S+, Mirage_Chaser)
  
• The machine credited bills before the MPU and backplane were swapped out.
• The old backplane was thrown out.
• Since the old EEPROM has been thrown away, there is no way to verify what was on it.

You didn't talk much about the motherboard (backplane). Are you sure that the replacement board was the same as the one removed?
Are you sure that you reconnected everything exactly as it had been connected before?
Where did you get the replacement motherboard from?  Did it come out of a regular S+? If so, then it's possible that there was a setting in the old EEPROM that is now missing.

[poppo]

• We don't know for certain that the SET chip he used was good. (unless you can verify that it works in a regular S+, Mirage_Chaser)

I do believe he said he verified that.

We also don't know where those other 4 wires from the BV go.

[stayouttadabunker]

we'll may never know about the original MB as it was hack-sawed in half and ditched into the garbage...along with the original 8-pin 24C04 eprom settings! 

[Mirage_Chaser]

I did try the set chip in a different machine and it worked as expected.

Pic of the cc (it appears unmolested)
and the donating parts machine

[Mirage_Chaser]

We also don't know where those other 4 wires from the BV go.

that's true I will give it a second attempt to track them down.

[StatFreak]

we'll may never know about the original MB as it was hack-sawed in half and ditched into the garbage...along with the original 8-pin 24C04 eprom settings! 

 

...

• The old backplane was thrown out.
• Since the old EEPROM has been thrown away, there is no way to verify what was on it.

You didn't talk much about the motherboard (backplane). Are you sure that the replacement board was the same as the one removed?
Are you sure that you reconnected everything exactly as it had been connected before?
Where did you get the replacement motherboard from?  Did it come out of a regular S+? If so, then it's possible that there was a setting in the old EEPROM that is now missing.

[poppo]

Here is a question. After changing the motherboard and MPU, did you have to clear any errors? If so, what were they. Specifically did you get a 61? If not, then I would say the RS chip is not even using the EEPROM since a 61 is due to a mismatch of the EEPROM and the CMOS which you would have had after the swap.

[StatFreak]

Here is a question. After changing the motherboard and MPU, did you have to clear any errors? If so, what were they. Specifically did you get a 61? If not, then I would say the RS chip is not even using the EEPROM since a 61 is due to a mismatch of the EEPROM and the CMOS which you would have had after the swap.

That the RS might not be using the EEPROM occurred to me as well. It's still possible that the structure of the data on the EEPROM might affect the machine's operation. Heck, do we even know for certain that the old board had an EEPROM on it?

As long as we're looking at the swap, did you make sure that the DIP switches were set the same as on the old MPU board?

[knagl]

Is there any wiring from the special IGT board with the ticking relay and mechanical counter? In particular, perhaps there is wiring that goes from there to the coin-in optics or cherry switch to pulse credits onto it (making a SET chip moot).

[poppo]

That the RS might not be using the EEPROM occurred to me as well. It's still possible that the structure of the data on the EEPROM might affect the machine's operation. Heck, do we even know for certain that the old board had an EEPROM on it?

From my playing around with my EEPROM mods, the chip does nothing unless it's being read to or written to.  In effect it's like it's not even there. Once a S+ boots up (with normal chips), you can actually remove it and the game will run fine until the next time it writes to it (i.e. every 100 pulls).

[stayouttadabunker]

The 4 wires to the black Molex connector hanging down from the BV
could be for the signals that come out of the CashCode BV?
Should it be plugged in somewhere?
Maybe that's why it's eating the bills but not adding the credits?

[Mirage_Chaser]

Ok first, the backplane and mpu came from the same machine so there would not be a error when I brought them up because there is no mismatch, correct? How ever I do remember that when I initally when I tried to use the set chip it came up after I tried as if nothing had happened and when I tried today with the jumper changed it came up in a 61. Also I don't know if it makes a difference but to clear the 61 all I had to do was push the test switch and don't you normally have to key off a 61-1 error?

The wires go from the meter board into the BA harness and that goes to the connector on the door which was pictured earlier. As near as I can tell the wires for the cc and ba are seperate. And nothing has changed about that end of the wiring, remember this all happened after the MPU and Backplane was changed and that was due to a short on the backplane that fried both.

I thought I needed a set chip because after the swap we were never able to enable the BA. I realize that normally the setting enables the ba to start accepting but maybe because this is a cashcode ba it is different.

[poppo]

Is there any wiring from the special IGT board with the ticking relay and mechanical counter? In particular, perhaps there is wiring that goes from there to the coin-in optics or cherry switch to pulse credits onto it (making a SET chip moot).

I was wondering that too. Since a normal S+ has it's own meters connected to the motherboard, why would it need a separate meter for the BV unless the RS chip does not support a BV (as already somewhat confirmed). So it would make sense to use the same meter board to also drive a coin-in simulator. There seems to be quite a bit of circuitry and wires on that meter board just to drive the meter.

That is why I wanted to see a picture of the coin mechanism and the wiring going to it.

[StatFreak]

<ADD> I'm inclined to agree with knagl and poppo. It seems more and more likely that the extra board is involved in crediting the machine.


Is it possible that the short damaged more than the motherboard and the MPU?

[stayouttadabunker]

Can you give me the make and model of your CashCode.
I can try and do some searching for info on it.

I'm surprised that IGT didn't offer support for your machine because I really
don't think there was a huge production of these beasts?!?!

[Mirage_Chaser]

<ADD> I'm inclined to agree with knagl and poppo. It seems more and more likely that the extra board is involved in crediting the machine.


Is it possible that the short damaged more than the motherboard and the MPU?

Yes it also blew some darlington transistors on the reel driver board. It all stemmed from a reel problem which caused a 49 that we couldn't clear and we found that part of the backplane was melted and so we changed it out. That solved the 49. The MPU wouldn't boot at some point but I can't remember if it got changed before or after the backplane, might have been at the same time.

[poppo]

And nothing has changed about that end of the wiring, ......

Keep in mind wiggling and jiggling wires in one place can often cause problems somewhere else. Just like the example I gave a little while ago. I was nowhere near that bell connector, but yet it got disconnected.

And Stat brings up a good point that something else may have also gotten cooked.

[stayouttadabunker]

Still...we need the output signals from the CashCodeBV...that's where the money goes in.

Maybe that particular wire for the output signal is loose somewhere
after swapping out stuff after the fire.

Like I said earlier, we need communication from the BV to get credits.
Stick a $20 dollar bill in there and strobe the output wires from the BV.
If the signals goes to the small board, then locate the output
from there by strobing wires off of that too.

We need to find the output signals whenever a eaten bill is accepted.

[Mirage_Chaser]

odel of your CashCode.
I can try and do some searching for info on it.

I'm surprised that IGT didn't offer support for your machine because I really
don't think there was a huge production of these beasts?!?!
[/quote]

I couldn't find much model information it just says Cash Code and ruble ready. But a while ago I looked online and found a manual based on looks alone from their website

[stayouttadabunker]

The other thing that bugs me is:
Why the heck did IGT install an RS chip into an S+ MPU? 
Did they NOT already have 4-reelers programmed yet into S+ software in 1988 ?

Anyways,
if you BV is eating bills, then I'd go back to the root of the problem and follow it from there.
Maybe the output credit pulse signal is shot but only the meter pulse is registering?

Like I said, pretty much un-charted waters we're surfing here...

I'm confident we will get to the bottom of this and get your machine up
and running the way it should!

BTW Do you have a spare Cashcode to swap with?
See if the spare BV also "eats" bills too.

[StatFreak]

This is from page 26 of the manual Mirage_Chaser uploaded:

Type 2: 12 Volt DC – This device is suited for Amusement, Gaming, Kiosk and Transportation
applications. Following protocols can be configured.

Isolated Pulse.
CashCode Serial.
Bi-Directional.
CCNET

The pinouts for the Gaming model (#2, 12v) can be found on pages 27 and 28.
Pins 5 & 6 of the 6-pin connector enable and disable the validator. However, since the BV accepts bills and counts credits on the extra board, it must already be enabled.

The 18 pin cable has the data lines.

TERMINAL SIGNAL FUNCTION
1 Credit Pulse Pulse Signal NIP Interface (output)
2 Interrupt Availability to transfer a status message
(output)
3 Serial/Pulse Select Interface type (input)
4 Ground Signal Ground
5 Serial Data Output An eight bit status message (output)
6 Not connected -----------
7 Not connected -----------
8 Not connected -----------
9 Not connected -----------
10 Out of Service Busy or Failure
11 TXD-TTL Transmit data (TTL level)
12 Accept Enable Enable accept bill (input)
13 LED Power Source 200 ohm to 5 VDC (output)
14 Send Control system signal initiating transfer
a status message (input)
15 RXD-RS232 Receive Data (RS232 level)
16 RXD-TTL Receive Data (TTL level)
17 TXD-RS232 Transmit data (RS232

From page 31. Here's where we hit a snag. The manual doesn't tell us which DIP switch settings go with which protocol so we can't verify the current protocol by checking the switches. 

The DIP switches are located at the CPU board.
...
A set of 4 DIP switches defines the settings of interface type.

For a complete explanation of switch description, please see the software User’s Guide
(enclosed to each bill validator and available at http://support.cashcode.com

[stayouttadabunker]

Were those bare wire receptor pins in that picture I highlighted earlier touching?
Could have disabled the CashCode output pulse for credits?

[poppo]

And none of the protocols appear to be IGT compatible, so there must be some conversion process. Of course there is the 'isolated pulse' mode which would be the easiest to implement.

[stayouttadabunker]

And none of the protocols appear to be IGT compatible, so there must be some conversion process. Of course there is the 'isolated pulse' mode which would be the easiest to implement.

IGT does not always take the easiest route....
After all, they're the ones who stick RS chips into S+ boards!!! 

[Mirage_Chaser]

Were those bare wire receptor pins in that picture I highlighted earlier touching?
Could have disabled the CashCode output pulse for credits?

The picture is misleading there was just the very top of one pin exposed and I went and pushed it back in. I will try a bill just to verify that it is still no go.