Will an S+ Hopper work in an S slot?

[StatFreak]

I'm at another member's house (Buzz) and am looking at an S slot that has a 3300 error that can't be cleared. Here's what I've found out so far: The input test (14) shows that the state of the coin out switch on the hopper is always 1. Tripping the optics doesn't change the state, but removing the hopper dioes (it changes to 0) We've tried more than one hopper and they are known good (they work in an S+). So the source of the error is that the coins aren't being counted, since the switch state doesn't change.

I don't have experience with the S slot. Is an S+ hopper supposed to work in an S?

[blueridgeslots]

Same Hopper, but could have a different type counting device, Micro switch vs Optic, is there a Relay for the hopper (Red Box) mounted in the bottom tray?

[Jim]

SF/Jim    see picture----red box in righthand cornor.    Looked at my schematics for S,S+  pinouts are the same for both

pins 11, 12 as viewed on backside of hopper are for 115vac to the motor
pin 8 is coin out Yellow wire
pin 7 is hopper full  coin probe
pin 9 is ground  located on center post of red relay
pin 10 is +vb for optics.red wire

pin 8 goes to pin 6 of J-1

hopes this helps   
Jim

[StatFreak]

Thanks Jim²     

It appears that you are both right. The S isn't supplying power to the optics so the hopper needs a mechanical switch in order to work.

This machine doesn't have the red relay, but there is a flat box bolted onto the side of the frame that holds the hopper plug (in the machine, not on the hopper). It is labeled "Crydom CY4902"  and has 5 connections: 2 output labeled 120v 5A, and three input labeled pos1, ground, and pos2. (I would have thought that the 120v should be the input?  )

Is this the same device as the "red box"? What is its function?

[blueridgeslots]

Thanks Jim²    

It appears that you are both right. The S isn't supplying power to the optics so the hopper needs a mechanical switch in order to work.

This machine doesn't have the red relay, but there is a flat box bolted onto the side of the frame that holds the hopper plug (in the machine, not on the hopper). It is labeled "Crydom CY4902"  and has 5 connections: 2 output labeled 120v 5A, and three input labeled pos1, ground, and pos2. (I would have thought that the 120v should be the input?  )

Is this the same device as the "red box"? What is its function?



Same thing, different brand, it is the relay

[Jim]

SF/     Its.. a solid state relay     a/c hot comes to one post of load, other post  goes to hopper plug----when machine is told to pay out  the relay is energized and applies 115 vac to hopper.  the 1 and 2 inputs are the commands from logic board to energize relay. then the optics take over, count the coins and stop when correct amount is reached.

Jim

[StatFreak]

Thanks. In that case, the relay is working and is not the issue. It appears that we need a mechanical switch to replace the optics on the hopper (the easy way?) or we need to tap 5VDC from somewhere to power the optic.

Does anyone have a mechanical hopper payout counter/switch that can replace the optic?

[Jim]

Did the machine work before?     What kind of optics or ?  is on the hopper now?

Could you swap the optics from the know good hopper and put it on the suspect hopper and see what happens?


that could eliminate the hopper????

[StatFreak]

Did the machine work before?     What kind of optics or ?  is on the hopper now?

Apparently not. Buzz says that the guy that he bought if from claims to have had it working, but that doesn't seem to have been the case.

I went through the output tests and determined that the coins weren't being counted, then pulled the cmos to clear the 3300 error. I made sure that the credit mode was turned on and was careful not to put in four coins at a time (because the machine would then try to kick out the extra coin and tilt) and played the it. The machine works perfectly as long as the hopper doesn't engage. Credits go to the meter and can be played off, and the lockup and all of the setup functions work fine.

The hopper that came with the machine is a standard quarter S+ hopper with the high security optic.

I have pictures, but Buzz is on dial up, so I can't really upload them from here.

<ADD> It is a small 9" slimline S with a Wild Cherry kit and is really clean. It's a sweet little machine!

[StatFreak]

Just as a point of interest, the chip in the board is an RS3413.

[Jim]

I would remove the security cap and mechanical pivot and secure the optic horseshoe directly to the hopper, and at the same time examine the three wires that go from the optic to the hopper plug for proper connection and no broken wires  ??

      but you said it still doesn't work with known good hopper----leads to wiring or to the board????

[StatFreak]

Okay. I tested the optic and that's not an issue. The S just doesn't power it. I spoke with Joey and tried his suggestion of opening the ground and yellow (receiver) wires to simulate a switch.

To be more specific, I detached the green ground wire from the bolt on the hopper chassis and held it to the chassis ground manually. Then I turned on the machine, pressed the cash out button, and as the hopper started up I "reverse" tapped the wire to ground (lifted it quickly and then put it back down). Each time I did this the machine "counted" out a coin and the hopper turned off as soon as I tapped out all the credits.

So it looks like what Buzz needs is a mechanical switch to be wired between the yellow receive wire and ground that is normally closed and that momentarily opens when the coin passes under the fulcrum. That should get the machine working 100%.

So, does anyone have something like that they could sell? What about borrowing something from an EM hopper?

[blueridgeslots]

I have the long switches still new from IGT, but have to look for an old rocker roller and the bracket for the coin

[Jim]

SF   that's  odd , because the schematic shows  +vb  being supplied to  pin 10 0f the hopper plug.  as you look at the hopper plug it would be the contact on the left side middle position, red  wire.  If you are going to persue the mechanical  fix, then I'll wait and see how it plays out.  Let me know if I can help.

Jim

[blueridgeslots]

The ones I remember having the mechanical switches were the smaller plug like from a Fortune 1, guess it could have been a patch job, I looked at a bunch of the S machines I had here and all had the Optic

[Jim]

 Yeah  the only IGT machines I remember having mechanical counters were  the "M"  and " M"+ series

[StatFreak]

Well, we fabricated a temporary solution. We took the cash can sensor switch out of a Bally 5500 and mounted it on a makeshift aluminum bracket that Buzz cut from a 90 degree strip of aluminum. We removed the optic and placed the switch so that the coins roll under the tiny wheel on the end of the switch.

It turned out that we needed to connect to the red optic wire, not the yellow So once side of the switch is plugged into the second blade from the top on the handle side of the machine of the hopper plug, and the other side of the switch to ground. The switch is wired normally closed.

It works just fine, but the little wheel on the switch is so small that some of the quarters end up dropping back into the hopper after they trigger the pulse, so it short pays. But no tilts! I took pictures and I'll post them in this thread when I get home.

I have the long switches still new from IGT, but have to look for an old rocker roller and the bracket for the coin

Jim, Buzz would still like to replace our ingenious little fix with an original switch and proper rocker roller if you can get one for him.

Okay, what is an M+? 
This machine has an MPU board that just sits in the back of the machine. It has two sockets for removable DIPs, one for the RS chip and one for the CMOS (no SP chip). There is no motherboard, just two large bundles of wires that hook directly onto the board on the long edge and a smaller bundle on the shorter edge near the volume control. The harnesses go directly to the door, hopper, etc. It has an LED display on the right side of the reel glass and no display along the bottom (like the M slot pictures I've seen posted). So am I right that this is an S slot?

<ADD> Side plate reads model # 4041D, Stepper Slot, 3/89

[blueridgeslots]

Yes, S, the M+ had a Slide in board at the top above the reels

[Jim]

SF  maybe you can use the mechanical part of the high security optic and fashion a switch holder so that when the coin moves the arm instead of moving the plastic tab thru the optics it would hit a switch contact.     I have attached a picture of a 'S' board,
a M+ board, a mechanical coin out mech, a M machine and a M+ machine.

[Jim]

the M+ machine  and the M+ board

[Jim]

the mech coin out hopper


Jim

[blueridgeslots]

The S slot had the SP and SS chip combined in one ROM chip. the S+ SP chips have a 8KB blank area that the CPU reads from the SS chip.

That would be known as an "RS" chip (27C256) for the S (also possible to use in a S+ though)

[StatFreak]

Here are the pictures of the mod as promised. Sorry for the delay, but I needed some sleep after playing with slot machine for 30+ hours straight! (Not just this one.) 

Here are pictures of the S MPU board and the RS chip.

[StatFreak]

Here are two of the three harnesses that come off the MPU board and the wiring bundle that goes to the door.

[Jim]

Hey  StatFreak; after going through all this he won't need a hopper in that machine----at that payout% the machine will never hit anyway.

Sorry about the quality of the pictures I posted    Had camera set on wrong setting!!!

I'll keep an eye out for an old hopper with the mech. payout

Jim