What Exactly Does Clearing The RAM DO, And Does It Affect The RNG?

[brichter]

I'm failing to see how data on a RAM or CMOS chip would slow down a stepper motor.


Rocket, can you explain this statement?

DOES THE RAM CLEAR AFFECT THE RNG OR REEL CHIP ?? ANSWER COULD ONLY BE NO !!>>>>>>>your not clearing the random number generator >>>>

but you are giving it a clean plate to go from !!!

[stayouttadabunker]

I'm wondering if clogged data on both the CMOS and the 24C04 motherboard chip
contribute to the microprocessor's search speeds, thereby in turn,
slow down the time it takes to send signals up to the stepper motor's?

The line of thinking is pretty much the same as they way the cursor acts,
page loading, and other things like photo-processing in a bogged down,
over-worked microprocessor in a home computer?

or how about this...too many clothes in a washing machine?
Maybe an inadequate Martha's Vineyard power-grid placed in a city the size of Manhattan?

[brichter]

Stat, can you explain the following statement?

Regarding the assertion made by many techs that these machines are more likely to hit a top prize after a clear, or within some specified time frame following a clear (I have heard stories ranging from 24 hours to 168 hours), there is a possibility  that the RNG might  be more likely to choose certain number combinations early in its cycle following a reseed.

Does a RAM clear change the seed of the RNG?

[brichter]

I'm wondering if clogged data on both the CMOS and the 24C04 motherboard chip
contribute to the microprocessor's search speeds, thereby in turn,
slow down the time it takes to send signals up to the stepper motor's?

The line of thinking is pretty much the same as they way the cursor acts,
page loading, and other things like photo-processing in a bogged down,
over-worked microprocessor in a home computer?

or how about this...too many clothes in a washing machine?
Maybe an inadequate Martha's Vineyard power-grid placed in a city the size of Manhattan?

You should read the post by Stat and cfh concerning the content of the RAM and CMOS. These are finite-content devices, so there is not more or less data in them at any given time. The data is always there, the only thing that changes is the value of the data. it's not like the cache on a browser that starts empty then grows from 0 bytes to several tens or hundreds of megabytes.

There was a big investigation into this a while back, not sure if it was before or after the upgrade.

[stayouttadabunker]

I'm wondering if clogged data on both the CMOS and the 24C04 motherboard chip
contribute to the microprocessor's search speeds, thereby in turn,
slow down the time it takes to send signals up to the stepper motor's?

The line of thinking is pretty much the same as they way the cursor acts,
page loading, and other things like photo-processing in a bogged down,
over-worked microprocessor in a home computer?

or how about this...too many clothes in a washing machine?
Maybe an inadequate Martha's Vineyard power-grid placed in a city the size of Manhattan?

You should read the post by Stat and cfh concerning the content of the RAM and CMOS. These are finite-content devices, so there is not more or less data in them at any given time. The data is always there, the only thing that changes is the value of the data. it's not like the cache on a browser that starts empty then grows from 0 bytes to several tens or hundreds of megabytes.

There was a big investigation into this a while back, not sure if it was before or after the upgrade.

Good answer! Thanks Brichter!

I wish someone had a better explanation than Rocket's posts
as to why an old S+ works better after the clear chip is performed?

[brichter]

I wish someone had a better explanation than Rocket's posts
as to why an S+ works better after the clear chip is performed?

I think the jury's still out on that one... I for one have not noticed a difference after I cleared my machine. That's why I'm interested in testing it.

[stayouttadabunker]

With your luck...we might have to wait two more years for you to hit the jackpot...

(just pulling your leg...lol)

I performed a Clear on a S+ machine that had over 78 million games (pulls)
registered in the statistical data meters.
(I just wanted to get smaller numbers to write into my logbooks...LOL)
I would like to ask the regular players how they like the machine...
I won't know what they think until Monday afternoon.
I will report my findings then.
Let's see if they hit the jackpot by then...LOL

[brichter]

With your luck...we might have to wait two more years for you to hit the jackpot...

OH GOD NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!










 

[lowflight]

If you look at a PAR sheet it shows that a game is more likely to hit a JP when it is first set up than after 1000 spins

[brichter]

If you look at a PAR sheet it shows that a game is more likely to hit a JP when it is first set up than after 1000 spins

I think you're talking about the 90% confidence figures, but I'm not sure that's what it says... I'm not a statistician, but those numbers refer to the fact that a single decent sized hit can skew the percentages pretty greatly because there's less non-winning outcomes to offset the wins.

Think of it this way: What's the payback percentage if you hit an 80 credit payout after 3 pulls? Let's say you pull the handle another 20 times and don't win a thing, what's the payout percentage at that point?

StatFreak to the mezzanine, please...

[ROCKET]

ok im in from plowing my driveway of 8-inches of snow that did not go to CANADA !!!

ok remember me !! i cant spell worth a shoot !! i rarely use spell checker  deal with me or ignore !!

second im trying to answer BRITCHERS QUESTION & BUNKERS QUESTION
BUT I FEEL BUNKER HIT THE NAIL ON HEAD

THIS WAS HIS POST QUOTE ::

===============================================================
I'm wondering if clogged data on both the CMOS and the 24C04 motherboard chip
contribute to the microprocessor's search speeds, thereby in turn,
slow down the time it takes to send signals up to the stepper motor's?

The line of thinking is pretty much the same as they way the cursor acts,
page loading, and other things like photo-processing in a bogged down,
over-worked microprocessor in a home computer?
=====================================================

I ROCKET AGREE WITH THAT ABOVE !!  NOW MY G-FRIEND/WIFE IS GOING TO KILL ME
THIS EVENING IF SHE SAYS

ALL I SEE IS THE BACK OF YOUR HEAD HONEY TYPING AWAY !!!

I AM GOING TO GO THROUGH MY MANUALS & NOTES FROM IGT DATING BACK 20 YRS ..
I HAVE A ENTIRE ARTICLE ON THE INVENTION & USE OF THE RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR !!

if i find it ?? it will be like getting the big  "0" lol it explains in detail all the answers to all the questions posted and then some !!

as far as speed of machine statement. I made after a ram clear !! I thought i put a end to the thinking that it actually made the machine
do double time /warp speed /a buck-380mph/ all the slang terms for fast-er .

I STATE AGAIN AFTER A RAM CLEAR ON SAID >>HYPOTHETICAL MACHINE << THAT WAS RUN FOR 5 YEARS --WAS A 5-LINE GAME DOUB DIAMOND ON NICKELS
RUNNING A 88% CHIP . THAT I HAD DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE FROM THE LOG BOOK FROM DAY ONE ENTRY -TO DAY EMPTIED OUT OF THE LOOT AT CASINO
THAT NO WHERE WAS SAID IN THE LOG BOOK ANY RAM CLEAR HAD EVER BEEN DONE IN 5 YRS .. WHEN I FIRST WENT TO PLAY THE MACHINE IT WAS SLOW REEL SPEED ETC .

I PERFORMED A RAM CLEAR TWICE IN 12-15  MINUTES -- I THEN REPLACED THE FACTORY EPROM ETC SET UP MACHINE AND PLAYED IT !!
IT WAS BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUGHT .THAT THE MACHINE WAS FASTER THAN BEFORE !!

 BUT TO INTERPRET MY CLAIM OF THIS OBSERVATION :

 ITS NOT FASTER IN REAL LIFE AS IN SOME SPECIAL 10 MPH WAS ADDED TO THE REEL SPIN -SPEED .

IT WAS JUST RETURNED TO THE SPEED IT HAD WHEN NEW !!! IF THAT PART CAN BE UNDERSTOOD BY MEMBERS ..IT GETS US AWAY FROM MYTH BUSTERS ..LOL

as far as hitting jackpots said by other members it happened other members it did not happen .. BUT NOBODY HAS CHIMMED IN AND SAID WHAT S+ GAME WAS IN THERE MACHINE
WHEN THIS WAS DONE ??


WE ALL KNOW THAT PLAYING A 2-COIN MAX BET WITH TOP AWARD OF 2000 COINS  IS GOING TO HAVE A HIT FREQUENCY HIGHER THAN A 3-COIN MULTIPLIER GAME THAT HAS A TOP AWARD OF 25,000.00 THATS A NO BRAINER --GIVEN THE FACT THEY BOTH RUN LETS SAY FOR HYPOTHETICAL PURPOSES A 95 % CHIP .


so we should note manny facts have not been disclosed on what game hit jackpots right after a ram clear ??

this thread is far from over lol

rocket

[brichter]

Ok, my machine is DD Haywire.

[ROCKET]

Ok, my machine is DD Haywire.

low top award theres one  thank you .

[5 ACES]

  WOW!! I got up today and thought I was in the wrong forum, because of the number of posts! This is great, having all of this information/debate on the subject! If anything, I can say this: I belong to a fairly large number of forums that cover a broad range of things. BY FAR, the members in the NLG forums are without a doubt some of the most thorough, knowledgeable and generous people I have ever seen! Owning my S+ and knowing the knowledge base that resides here on NLG, is better than any customer service out there! I know from reading the posts on this subject, there are a lot of members that are looking to find the Holy Grail on wheather or not the RNG is really "fair" or "random" so to speak. I know that question plays in my mind every time I'm in a casino, or when I catch a glimpse of how full the money drawer is behind the cashier cage, or how full the hopper's are when a tech happens to open up a machine!  It's my gut feeling that had this forum been around to challenge the RNG back in the day of it's invention, we may all be discussing a totally different method of "randomness" today. But for what it's worth, I for one still have the feeling the RNG is not as "random" as it's made out to be! I'm going to do the RAM clear on my machine in a few days. We have over 4000 credits on it now, so I don't want to wipe them away just yet. I'll make sure and post the kit I install and any other differences that I can observe.

[Thor777]

as far as hitting jackpots said by other members it happened other members it did not happen .. BUT NOBODY HAS CHIMMED IN AND SAID WHAT S+ GAME WAS IN THERE MACHINE
WHEN THIS WAS DONE ??
this thread is far from over lol

rocket

I am not trying to take sides here (honest) but I have to agree with Rocket... After owning my S+ for well over a year it I changed the bill validator and decided to also do a full ram clear and not just a set.  WOW, what a difference in performance after that and I know what your going to say but within a week I hit the TOP jackpot once (Red White & Blue) and the 2ed jackpot (red 7's) twice on a RWB unit.   Never hit it before or since !

Just my experience  

way back in the begining of this thread I stated the above.. (BTW 93 percent payback)   

[StatFreak]

If you look at a PAR sheet it shows that a game is more likely to hit a JP when it is first set up than after 1000 spins

I think you're talking about the 90% confidence figures, but I'm not sure that's what it says... I'm not a statistician, but those numbers refer to the fact that a single decent sized hit can skew the percentages pretty greatly because there's less non-winning outcomes to offset the wins.

Think of it this way: What's the payback percentage if you hit an 80 credit payout after 3 pulls? Let's say you pull the handle another 20 times and don't win a thing, what's the payout percentage at that point?

StatFreak to the mezzanine, please...

The confidence value section of the PAR sheet seems to give laymen more trouble than any other. The figures there most definitely DO NOT suggest that the machine is more likely to hit anything or pay out more often during the first 1000 pulls, 10,000 pulls, or any other pulls. They are a measure of volatility over a given set of trials.

Let's take a look at SS4633.

Red White & Blue, 3cm, 96.23% 64 stop paytable.

90% CONFIDENCE VALUES     VOLATILITY INDEX =   16.427

	LOWER	UPPER
HANDLE PULLS	PERCENTAGE	PERCENTAGE
1000.	44.29	148.18
10000.	79.81	112.66
100000.	91.04	101.43
1000000.	94.59	97.88
10000000.	95.71	96.75

PAY TABLE  FILE NAME  : PTDAT:SS4633.PAY

The first line indicates that this table is based on 90% confidence values. This means that 90% of the time, the machine will fall into these ranges. What is also means is that 10% of the time it will fall outside of these ranges.

Now look at the first line in the table:

1000.

44.29

148.18

What this line tells us is that FOR ANY TRIAL OF 1000 SPINS, 90% of the time, the machine will pay back between 44.29% and 148.18%.

It DOES NOT state that only the FIRST 1000 pulls will payback in this range, but that ANY ARBITRARY SAMPLE of 1000 spins will be within this range most of the time (but 10% of the time, the results will still be outside these ranges.)

The purpose of these figures is to give an operator an understanding of the volatility of that particular game. They can also be used to look for problems.

Let's say that a casino had 20 RWB machines with this chip installed and they wanted to check to be sure that the machines were running properly and not paying out too little or too much. Let's say that they started tracking the machines after they had been installed for six months. That is, they started counting spins from that point.

After tracking 100,000 spins for each of the 20 machines, they they might then look at this table and see that for a sample of 100,000 pulls, 90% of the machines would be expected to pay out somewhere between 91.04% and 101.43%. 90% of 20 is 18 machines.

So, if 18 out of their 20 machines had total payouts within the range of 91.04% to 101.43%, that would tell them that the machines were operating within expected parameters. Keep in mind that 2 of the 20 machines could still show as paying out more than 101.43% or less than 91.04% and this would still be considered normal. If they found, for example, that 6 of their 20 machines had paid out more than 101.43% or less than 91.04%, that would suggest that something was wrong and would most likely trigger an audit and an overhaul of the machines by a tech.

[stayouttadabunker]

If you look at a PAR sheet it shows that a game is more likely to hit a JP when it is first set up than after 1000 spins

I think you're talking about the 90% confidence figures, but I'm not sure that's what it says... I'm not a statistician, but those numbers refer to the fact that a single decent sized hit can skew the percentages pretty greatly because there's less non-winning outcomes to offset the wins.

Think of it this way: What's the payback percentage if you hit an 80 credit payout after 3 pulls? Let's say you pull the handle another 20 times and don't win a thing, what's the payout percentage at that point?

StatFreak to the mezzanine, please...

Can I take a crack at it?

If it was 1 coin per pull and you did 3 pulls , and the house paid out 80 coins,
then I would say that the  payout percentage at that point would be 2,666.67%.

Now after 23 coins and games played/pulls...
the House Take would amount to 57 coins with a payout percentage of 347.83%.
The Hit Frequency at that point would be 1 in 23 with the average bet of 1 coin per pull.

[StatFreak]

Bunker, I beat you by ONE second !!   HA HAHA 

[stayouttadabunker]

holy crappers that's close Stat! lol...
were my numbers right?

ADD>> I used the modified Statistical Data excel sheets devised last year
to try and answer Brichter's question.

[brichter]

Ok, my machine is DD Haywire.

low top award theres one  thank you .

There's one what?

[brichter]

If you look at a PAR sheet it shows that a game is more likely to hit a JP when it is first set up than after 1000 spins

I think you're talking about the 90% confidence figures, but I'm not sure that's what it says... I'm not a statistician, but those numbers refer to the fact that a single decent sized hit can skew the percentages pretty greatly because there's less non-winning outcomes to offset the wins.

Think of it this way: What's the payback percentage if you hit an 80 credit payout after 3 pulls? Let's say you pull the handle another 20 times and don't win a thing, what's the payout percentage at that point?

StatFreak to the mezzanine, please...

Can I take a crack at it?

If it was 1 coin per pull and you did 3 pulls , and the house paid out 80 coins,
then I would say that the  payout percentage at that point would be 2,666.67%.

Now after 23 coins and games played/pulls...
the House Take would amount to 57 coins with a payout percentage of 347.83%.
The Hit Frequency at that point would be 1 in 23 with the average bet of 1 coin per pull.

Yup. Now look at the difference between the payout percentage difference between 3 pulls and 23 pulls. That's the reason why the low and high percentages in the 90% confidence start out with a large divergence and and come closer to the expected percentage the more pulls there are, because there are more samples to use in the calculation.


Stat, you may only have beaten him by one second, but you typed a whole lot more than he did!

[StatFreak]

holy crappers that's close Stat! lol...
were my numbers right?

ADD>> I used the modified Statistical Data excel sheets devised last year
to try and answer Brichter's question.

..
Now after 23 coins and games played/pulls...
the House Take would amount to 57 coins with a payout percentage of 347.83%.
...

Yes, but I believe that you meant to say that the house take would be minus 57 coins, or that player would still be ahead by 57 coins.

[StatFreak]

By the way, while we're on the subject, IGT's "Volatility Index" is just an arbitrary number that they use as a yard stick by which to compare games. It is simply the 90% divergence value for 10,000 pulls.

Again using the example of the RWB SS4633:

PAYBACK 96.23%
VOLATILITY INDEX =   16.427

       10000.         79.81            112.66

96.23 -  16.427 =   79.803  (the discrepancy is due to rounding errors)
96.23 + 16.427 = 112.657

[reho33]

This is how PA sees it:

http://www.dgsweb.state.pa.us/CMSUploads/vod/cms_asx_generator.asp?videoname=093008_progam_gamingcontrolboard_randomnumbergenerator_2.wmv

http://www.dgsweb.state.pa.us/CMSUploads/vod/cms_asx_generator.asp?videoname=093008_progam_gamingcontrolboard_commonmyths_3.wmv

[stayouttadabunker]

This first video was on track but the second video...LOL She's a bloody liar!!!!
I love the way she never mentioned the capabilities of a server-based machine.

Yes...thank you Stat!
I should have typed some parentheses around the
"57" sort of like this (57) or mark the "57" in red ink...LOL