Help finding the right chip

[poppo]

No working set chip or this would be a very different post. So I couldn't set the ba and couldn't set the denom.

What does the set chip do when you used it? Anything at all? If not, I wonder if because it's a S+ board and that maybe it needs a S+ reel chip (any reel chip) installed just in order for the SET chip to boot. Again, just guessing here. I've never tried a set chip without a reel chip installed.

[Mirage_Chaser]

No working set chip or this would be a very different post. So I couldn't set the ba and couldn't set the denom.

What does the set chip do when you used it? Anything at all? If not, I wonder if because it's a S+ board and that maybe it needs a S+ reel chip (any reel chip) installed just in order for the SET chip to boot. Again, just guessing here. I've never tried a set chip without a reel chip installed.

Might be. Yeah it did nothing. No display and no tones.

[poppo]

Might be. Yeah it did nothing. No display and no tones.

If you have a reel chip, it couldn't hurt to try. A set chip should always boot in a S+ board (unless it does need a reel chip present).

Anyone know what size the RS chips are? What about that jumper by the game chip. Maybe it's set for a smaller size eprom than the set chip you are using (because it's a S chip). Hard to see from the picture.

[StatFreak]

RS chips are 256k.

Poppo, the SP chips (and by extension, the RS) set up both the EEPROM and the CMOS with specific data, so an incompatible SET chip might not work (even though the SP/RS is removed when it is used). The RS chip is both the reel/game data and the program, so a lack of an SS shouldn't matter. The SS data don't have anything to do with the SET process anyway, so I doubt that an SS chip would make any difference.

[poppo]

RS chips are 256k.

Poppo, the SP chips (and by extension, the RS) set up both the EEPROM and the CMOS with specific data, so an incompatible SET chip might not work (even though the SP/RS is removed when it is used). The RS chip is both the reel/game data and the program, so a lack of an SS shouldn't matter. The SS data don't have anything to do with the SET process anyway, so I doubt that an SS chip would make any difference.

Yes I agree that the set chip sets the eeprom data, but it 'should' still boot. I've used the wrong set chip for some SP chips and it would boot, but the setings would not work when I put the game chip back in. After all with no game chip, it's really just the set chip booting.

I know the reel chip really has nothing to do with things the set chips enables. I just don't know if the SET chip looks for the presence of one when it boots. Sort of like when you get the 'incompatible data chip' error when using the wrong game/reel combo.

Do you know if RS chips ever even supported BVs? Since the BV is taking bills, it must be enabled in some fashion other then via strictly a set chip.

Of course I suppose one could use a clear chip and then a set chip definitely should boot.

[StatFreak]

...
Do you know if RS chips ever even supported BVs? Since the BV is taking bills, it must be enabled in some fashion other then via strictly a set chip.

Of course I suppose one could use a clear chip and then a set chip definitely should boot.

Your post reminded me that this is an S+ using an RS chip, and you're right about the fact that the program in the SET chip should boot on its own. Since the board is an S+ board (and presumably an S+ machine) we know that it is designed to support a SET chip.

As an aside Poppo, what do you think that little extra board is? It is related to the volume?

[poppo]

As an aside Poppo, what do you think that little extra board is? It is related to the volume?

I assume so. I have seen it before. Not in person, but on boards for sale like on e-bay. I always figured it was just an early revision of the board.

As for the RS chip. If they never supported BVs (directly), then the whole set chip process is moot, since the chip won't even know how to interpret the setting even if it was enabled. That is why I was wondering if the BV adds credits some other way, like using the coin optics.

[Mirage_Chaser]

Well I will try a reel chip tomorrow with the 15 I have. And also check for missed connections again just be on the safe side. But I would really like to know what set chip I am supposed to be using... that might be the only problem.

[StatFreak]

It's still not clear that a SET chip is needed. It would be helpful if someone knew something about the Cashcode BV and how it works with an S+. 

[poppo]

My curiosity got the best of me and I tried booting with just a set chip and no reel chip and it did boot. So that's not it.

[Mirage_Chaser]

My curiosity got the best of me and I tried booting with just a set chip and no reel chip and it did boot. So that's not it.

Well that's good information.

It's still not clear that a SET chip is needed. It would be helpful if someone knew something about the Cashcode BV and how it works with an S+. 

Yes it is possible that the cashcode ba's work in a different manner. But as I have not been able to enable the BA or set the denom it could very well be just those settings.

[poppo]

It's still not clear that a SET chip is needed.

Right. Do RS chips even use set chips? Does anyone have a PSR for any RS chip to see what it says?

[poppo]

But as I have not been able to enable the BA or set the denom it could very well be just those settings.

Keep in mind that typically when we say the BV is 'not enabled', that means it does not even turn on and won't accept bills. The SET chip normally turns on the BV to accept bills and then sets the denomination. So in actuality, your BV is 'enabled' since it is taking bills. I just have a feeling it adds the credits by 'pulsing' some line to simulate coins being inserted. But still just doing a lot of guessing here since this is an odd duck.

[Mirage_Chaser]

That is true. Maybe it is just the denom that needs to be set then. Or it could be that it's just the cash code is the odd duck and just steals bills when it is not enabled... Don't reply know for sure though.

[knagl]

I was wondering if the BV adds credits some other way, like using the coin optics.

This is a good point.  Where does the wiring for the bill validator go?  Does it go straight into the motherboard (backplane), or does it go elsewhere?  Does this machine use optics or a microswitch to add credits from inserted coins?

Also, since I'm assuming you're in a casino environment, do you have the PSR and/or the PAR for the SS055 or RS3050 on file anywhere?  I'm just wondering if any of the documentation for the chip might give any insight into the bill validator aspect.

Finally, I'd like to suggest that you may wish to re-post your request and pictures over at http://www.slottechforum.com/ (or at least post a link there to this thread).  That site has more active casino techs (most (but not all) of us are home hobbyists) and you're more likely to find someone there who is familiar with the Big Bertha machine you have (if you're lucky, someone there may still have one on their floor) and how to get your bill validator working.  Please keep us updated, though. 

[stayouttadabunker]

Wow! What a thread! I  just finished reading it all.

I think the fastest way to get that machine up and running is to pull out
the CashCode BV along with the Sevens System cashbox unit and swap the whole thing with
a regular WBA & cashbox as quickly as you can and use an SS reel chip that matches your reel strips.
I'm pretty sure but not entirely certain the reel strips are a clone of another game such as Double Diamond??
This way you will be able to use known working reel and SET chips.

You may or may not be able to use the Sevens Systems faceplate or go with something similar
that would allow the bill acceptor to stick out to receive bills.
You can plug in a regular display as well just by swapping a display glass with a cut-out and decals.
However, you may need to fashion a longer display harness that will reach from the button harness to the display.
I doubt there's any documentation or much help regarding the Seven Systems unit but there may be some help with the CashCode BV with using the correct SET chip at the slotechforum boards?

[stayouttadabunker]

I'd like to point out that I do think it was possible that the RS chips may have supported BV's because I have seen some older S's with those ugly boxes bolted to the right hand side of the machines - I appears though that yours is empty and just hanging there?

In any event, I'd be downtown buying some Lexan or glass with a BV cut out and swapping that unit with a WBA.
A few shiny decals applied later will make the machine functional and looking good!

[knagl]

I'm pretty sure but not entirely certain the reel strips are a clone of another game such as Double Diamond??

It's a 4-reeler. 

Not saying that your suggestion couldn't be done, but it'd be a challenge.  Since the validator was working at one point with the existing chips, I'd lean towards sticking with what he has.  Who knows what kind of issues he'd run into with a new SP chip unless it was designed to support a big bertha.

I'm still interested in how the bill validator is wired in -- poppo might be on to something if the validator was hacked in after the fact.

Mirage_Chaser: Where are you located?  Antigua by chance?  I know of a few casinos in Las Vegas that still run Big Bertha machines.  It'd be a long shot, but if you're also in a licensed casino it might be possible for you to get a hold of one of your slot tech peers at one of those Vegas casinos who might be able to point you in the right direction, but I'd probably start with the folks at http://www.slottechforum.com/ .

[poppo]

I'd like to point out that I do think it was possible that the RS chips may have supported BV's because I have seen some older S's with those ugly boxes bolted to the right hand side of the machines - I appears though that yours is empty and just hanging there?

The big question though is did the chip support it, or were they just wired into the coin mechanism as an 'ad-on'.  Put a bill in, and it just pulses x number of times 'tricking' the coin in unit to add credits. Most of the 'universal' BVs, can be set to pulse the proper denomination. i.e once per dollar for a dollar machine or 4 times per dollar for a quarter machine etc. That is how my MAME rig is set up. BV is wired in parallel with the coin mechanism.

[knagl]

[It] appears though that yours is empty and just hanging there?

Just to make sure everyone's looking at the correct part of the machine....

[stayouttadabunker]

If that CashCode is tricking the coin-in optics or something - that's something I'd like to see.
As far as swapping the CashCode with a DBV & cashbox...I'd say there's plenty of room! 
I'd leave the big box and just swap faceplates for the BV.
He already has a separate display panel working showing "4" credits - that's probably plugged
right to the the door harness or directly into the MPU harness.
 
I agree with Knagl in that ugly box hanging on the right might be for player tracking...
I don't know why they didn't just go with a Bally 200 /250 player tracking unit unit... :5

That's a really compact button deck there.
Does it have the wrong insert?
Looks like it says "Play 5 Coins"?
Does this machine have a extra bonus award payout structure for the 5th coin on a 4-reeler?

[knagl]

Does it have the wrong insert?
Looks like it says "Play 5 Coins"?
Does this machine have a extra bonus award payout structure for the 5th coin on a 4-reeler?

Most all of the 4-reel Big Bertha slots I've seen are 5CM games.  Click to enlarge the first picture.

[knagl]

Heh, I just noticed that at least on the first picture, if not all of them, the machine appears to have one of those S+/PE+ add-on side-mount bill validator boxes thrown in there to permit bill acceptance.   


(Photo credit: FORDBS)

[Mirage_Chaser]

Sorry to be gone so long...

Ok first, yes the box on the side is player tracking (non op)...

Also 5 coin game with progressive.

And yes I am in Antigua, are you familiar with it knagl?

Againg not a Seven series so there is a separate display.

[StatFreak]

Knagl, that particular Bertha is a Bally, but even so, it might be possible to replace the Cashcode with a more modern DBV or WBA if the entire machine is an S+.
Mirage_Chaser, are the rest of the components besides the MPU the same as an S+? ( i.e., the motherboard, basic harness (I/O) configuration, etc.?)


One thing that bothers me though is that if the set chip won't work now, I'm not sure that replacing the BV would "enable" the set chip.